So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm


Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

The organisers say the gruelling 4,000 km trip shows greener alternatives to
the traditional internal combustion engine can be developed.

The exhaust emissions of the Japanese-built car consist of pure water.

Sydney's Lord Mayor sampled a glass of it when the experimental vehicle
arrived there from Perth.

The car was designed by students at Tamagawa university in Tokyo.

Vehicle viability?
"We could have done it in four days but we didn't want to take any chances;
we wanted to show this could be done," said organiser Hans Tholstrup who
pioneered solar-powered car races in Australia two decades ago.

The most challenging conditions during the nine-day trip of the vehicle were
found in the Blue Mountains to the west of Sydney.

There the region's steep highways coupled with high temperatures made life
extremely uncomfortable for the team, says the BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney.

The car - named Apollondine after the ancient Greek gods of the Sun and the
water - travelled a total of 4,084 kilometres (2,533 miles)

"If you're asking when this technology could be commercially viable, then
the answer is 'how long is a piece of string?'," Mr Tholstrup added. "It's
interesting that clever university students have come up with this design,
instead of the major car companies." He said sooner or later the major car
companies would be using the building blocks his team have pioneered.

Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

--
Steven O'Neill
www.bridgetolls.org

Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Australia, I expect - getting it through customs is more trouble than
it's worth :-)

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to store to take
with you - either you need some very big cylinders to put it in, or you
need an absorber (which is quite heavy) or to make it VERY cold so that
it can be transported as a liquid. For this reason we're not likely to
see many hydrogen powered vehicles soon.

For more information check out sci.energy.hydrogen

Aidan Stanger wrote:
Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion
engine the oil company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has
completed a journey through Australia - the first
crossing of a continent for a car of this type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Australia, I expect - getting it through customs is more
trouble than
it's worth :-)

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to
store to take with you - either you need some very big
cylinders to put it in, or you need an absorber (which is
quite heavy) or to make it VERY cold so that
it can be transported as a liquid. For this reason we're
not likely to
see many hydrogen powered vehicles soon.

For more information check out sci.energy.hydrogen

Mercedes seem to be managing it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3323527.stm

"Aidan Stanger" wrote in message
...

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to
store to take with you - either you need some very big
cylinders to put it in, or you need an absorber
(which is quite heavy) or to make it VERY cold so that
it can be transported as a liquid. For this reason we're
not likely to see many hydrogen powered vehicles soon.

And then three of them will come a long at once (if you're on London's 25
bus route).

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Aidan Stanger wrote:
Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Australia, I expect - getting it through customs is more trouble than
it's worth :-)

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to store to take
with you

The trouble with hydrogen is that it takes energy to extract it
from water or other compounds. Hopefully, in the future, wind
or solar power will be used to do that. For now, a hydrogen
fuel cell is just displacing the pollution and greenhouse gases
from the car to the power plant.

--
Steven O'Neill
The bicycle is the true automobile.

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
Aidan Stanger wrote:
Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Australia, I expect - getting it through customs is more trouble than
it's worth :-)

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to store to take
with you

The trouble with hydrogen is that it takes energy to extract it
from water or other compounds. Hopefully, in the future, wind
or solar power will be used to do that. For now, a hydrogen
fuel cell is just displacing the pollution and greenhouse gases
from the car to the power plant.

See http://tinyurl.com/2gbbo (non tinyurl at the bottom for people who don't
trust them) for a viable biological hydrogen extraction method. Best of all it
would be relatively cheap even though it would require a large area.

http://www.esb.utexas.edu/islam/_pri...en_A lgae.htm

Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
Aidan Stanger wrote:
Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Australia, I expect - getting it through customs is more trouble than
it's worth :-)

The trouble with hydrogen is that it's rather difficult to store to take
with you

The trouble with hydrogen is that it takes energy to extract it
from water or other compounds. Hopefully, in the future, wind
or solar power will be used to do that. For now, a hydrogen
fuel cell is just displacing the pollution and greenhouse gases
from the car to the power plant.

In places where they have nuclear power stations, hydrogen power is a
good way to use up some of the excess power produced at times when
demand is low. However, Western Australia does not have nuclear power.
But the amount of energy needed to generate the hydrogen for one car is
very low anyway. The main objective is to prove it can be done. The main
hurdle is technical - the problem of generating the hydrogen efficiently
does not have to be sorted out at this stage. Of course, it will have to
be sorted before commercialization.

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
Cast_Iron wrote:
So there's no alternative to the infernal combustion engine the oil
company's say?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3350715.stm

Epic trip for 'alternative' car

A car that runs on just hydrogen and solar power has completed a journey
through Australia - the first crossing of a continent for a car of this
type.

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Water most of our hydrogen is pre-oxidised at present, the conventional way to
split it is to use electricity that could be developed in an environmentally
friendly way, or we could throw away hundreds of years worth of science and use
billions of years worth of evolution and algae. Algae happens to be very good at
splitting hydrogen and oxygen using little more than water space and a bit of
"free" energy from the sun. All that remains is the collection, storage and
distribution of the gasses.

Depresion wrote:

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote:

Where does the hydrogen come from?

Water most of our hydrogen is pre-oxidised at present, the conventional
way to split it is to use electricity that could be developed in an
environmentally friendly way, or we could throw away hundreds of years
worth of science and use billions of years worth of evolution and algae.
Algae happens to be very good at splitting hydrogen and oxygen using
little more than water space and a bit of "free" energy from the sun. All
that remains is the collection, storage and distribution of the gasses.

AIUI algae is a lot better at making diesel than it is at making
hydrogen! Plus diesel's a lot easier to collect. I'd expect diesel
production to be more economically efficient than hydrogen production
but I don't have the figures. Do you?