On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:19:56 +0000, Richard Adamfi
wrote:

Posters have appeared at the entrances to Finsbury Park station
(famously without ticket gates) telling Pre-Pay Oyster users to touch
the validators entering and exiting the station.

That is fine - but this is followed by:

"Customers with Oyster Cards charged with Travelcard Season tickets
not valid at Finsbury Park (Zone 2) are also advised to touch their
cards on the validators"

Can someone explain what this is about?

I think it is a badly worded attempt to explain that if you have a
Travelcard for say Zone 3 and arrive at Finsbury Park (Zone 2) *and*
have pre-pay value on your card that you must validate so that the
reader can make a pre-pay deduction for the out of zone travel. In other
words "please be honest and validate and pay for your travel, don't
dodge your fare".

With a validator equipped station Travelcard holders who are "in zone"
don't have to swipe their Oyster card but if you are out of zone you do
for the purposes of calculation of auto ticket extensions.

As to the Highbury validators that it is to deal with the issue of
someone opting to have a pre-pay card for LUL services but opting to
purchase a day return from Welwyn Garden City to Highbury. The pre-pay
must be validated on entry to LUL and at Highbury you do that at
platform level. It would be impossible to impose a rule that said you
must go the ticket hall, exit on your NR ticket and then re-enter and go
all the way back to the Tube platform having activated your Oyster card
at the gates. There are many instances of these open interchanges on
the system and LUL is the only large scale application of a stored value
system to have such "gaps" in the system.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

With a validator equipped station Travelcard holders
who are "in zone" don't have to swipe their Oyster
card but if you are out of zone you do for the
purposes of calculation of auto ticket extensions.

I see no way that LU can prevent fraud. You can travel anywhere you like on
the system with a one-zone travelcard, and then when you get to your
destination, if the gates are active, you swipe and have your extension
deducted... if the gates are inactive, you just walk out and you have no way
of getting caught. If any RCI stops you en route out of your travelcard
zone, you just say you are going to swipe for the extension at your
journey's end.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:45:19 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I see no way that LU can prevent fraud. You can travel anywhere you like on
the system with a one-zone travelcard, and then when you get to your
destination, if the gates are active, you swipe and have your extension
deducted... if the gates are inactive, you just walk out and you have no way
of getting caught. If any RCI stops you en route out of your travelcard
zone, you just say you are going to swipe for the extension at your
journey's end.

Is it possible for an inspector to check tickets further from the
platform than the validator?

For example, you have a zone 3 Travelcard, go to Finsbury Park, pass
the validator, then inspector gets you for not validating?

In message , Richard Adamfi
writes
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:45:19 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I see no way that LU can prevent fraud. You can travel anywhere you like on
the system with a one-zone travelcard, and then when you get to your
destination, if the gates are active, you swipe and have your extension
deducted... if the gates are inactive, you just walk out and you have no way
of getting caught. If any RCI stops you en route out of your travelcard
zone, you just say you are going to swipe for the extension at your
journey's end.

Is it possible for an inspector to check tickets further from the
platform than the validator?

For example, you have a zone 3 Travelcard, go to Finsbury Park, pass
the validator, then inspector gets you for not validating?

If you mean, do RCIs only operate on the paid-side, then the answer is
no.
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

In article , John Rowland
writes
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .

With a validator equipped station Travelcard holders
who are "in zone" don't have to swipe their Oyster
card but if you are out of zone you do for the
purposes of calculation of auto ticket extensions.

I see no way that LU can prevent fraud. You can travel anywhere you like on
the system with a one-zone travelcard, and then when you get to your
destination, if the gates are active, you swipe and have your extension
deducted... if the gates are inactive, you just walk out and you have no way
of getting caught. If any RCI stops you en route out of your travelcard
zone, you just say you are going to swipe for the extension at your
journey's end.


Presumably, TfL are working on the principle that once people find out
they have inadvertently used up all the value on the Oyster by not
validating it on entry, they will get used to the idea - and cynic TfL
will have received extra revenue /cynic. Not being able to get out
through the gates because you haven't remember to swipe on the way in
should focus peoples minds.

Mind you, that all requires the gates to be manned by people who will
explain the system and not just swipe people though, or ignore jumpers
and tailgaters...

--
Steve
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/B$ d++(-) s+:+ a+ C++ UL++ L+ P+ W++ N+++ K w--- O V
PS+++ PE- t+ 5++ X- R* tv+ b+++ DI++ G e h---- r+++ z++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

In message , John Rowland
writes
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .

With a validator equipped station Travelcard holders
who are "in zone" don't have to swipe their Oyster
card but if you are out of zone you do for the
purposes of calculation of auto ticket extensions.

I see no way that LU can prevent fraud. You can travel anywhere you like on
the system with a one-zone travelcard, and then when you get to your
destination, if the gates are active, you swipe and have your extension
deducted... if the gates are inactive, you just walk out and you have no way
of getting caught. If any RCI stops you en route out of your travelcard
zone, you just say you are going to swipe for the extension at your
journey's end.

But this is no different from the magnetic ticket system.
CofC state that you must have a ticket to cover the whole of the journey
you are making.
A RCI finding no Pre Pay balance on an Oyster could either issue a paper
extension ticket or a £10.00 Penalty Fare.
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:47:28 +0000, Kat
wrote:


But this is no different from the magnetic ticket system.
CofC state that you must have a ticket to cover the whole of the journey
you are making.
A RCI finding no Pre Pay balance on an Oyster could either issue a paper
extension ticket or a £10.00 Penalty Fare.

I think the argument here is that you would always keep a Pre Pay
balance, just in case you had to validate.

In message , Richard Adamfi
writes
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:47:28 +0000, Kat
wrote:


But this is no different from the magnetic ticket system.
CofC state that you must have a ticket to cover the whole of the journey
you are making.
A RCI finding no Pre Pay balance on an Oyster could either issue a paper
extension ticket or a £10.00 Penalty Fare.

I think the argument here is that you would always keep a Pre Pay
balance, just in case you had to validate.

And if you never intend to add Pre Pay to your Oyster, always make sure
you buy an extension.
From what I've gathered, the £10.00 Penalty Fare is going to be very
strictly enforced now.
--
Kat Reality is the leading cause of stress among those in touch with it.

"Kat" wrote in message
...
In message , Richard Adamfi
writes
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:47:28 +0000, Kat
wrote:


But this is no different from the magnetic ticket system.
CofC state that you must have a ticket to cover the whole of the journey
you are making.
A RCI finding no Pre Pay balance on an Oyster could either issue a paper
extension ticket or a £10.00 Penalty Fare.

I think the argument here is that you would always keep a Pre Pay
balance, just in case you had to validate.

And if you never intend to add Pre Pay to your Oyster, always make sure
you buy an extension.
From what I've gathered, the £10.00 Penalty Fare is going to be very
strictly enforced now.

So as long as I have pre-pay on my Oystercard (zones 2 & 3 only), I don't
need to buy an extension ticket when I travel into Zone 1 - it should take
it £1.60 extra off my pre-pay?

Adrian

In message , Adrian
writes

So as long as I have pre-pay on my Oystercard (zones 2 & 3 only), I don't
need to buy an extension ticket when I travel into Zone 1 - it should take
it £1.60 extra off my pre-pay?

That's correct.
But if you go out of zone 2 - 3 and have no Pre Pay, you won't be able
to use your Oyster in your valid zones until the debit has been repaid.

BTW, people who are still buying magnetic extension tickets (which of
course don't register on the Oyster) need to take ticket and Oyster to
the ticket window to have it sorted out on the TOM (Ticket Office
Machine)

I advise people to keep some Pre Pay on their period ticket Oysters.
The number of times people have told me that they haven't travelled out
of zone until I read them their travel history is surprising. I don't
believe they're trying to pull a fast one; most genuinely don't realise
it.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.