We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry Salter
said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to excavate as
much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate information
about the routes of underground railways? Are there some sort of official
maps somewhere?

tom

--
Pizza: cheap, easy, and portable. Oh, wait, that's me. Never mind. -- Edda

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry Salter
said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to excavate as
much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate information
about the routes of underground railways? Are there some sort of official
maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

.... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing point
south of Green Lanes.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Tom Anderson writes

We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry
Salter said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to
excavate as much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a
little way south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to
build a station with interchange, though.

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate
information about the routes of underground railways? Are there
some sort of official maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for example the
Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or DLR at Bank.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map. The nearest I have is an old
(1956) Bartholemew's Central London Atlas-Guide, but of course that's
now very out of date. The .pdf street maps in the TfL Journey Planner
also appear to be quite accurate, though it can be tricky to get it to
display the one you want.

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp double-bends on the
Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message , Richard J.
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for example the
Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or DLR at Bank.

"Not wonderfully detailed" was not the best description - it would be
fairer to say that there are quite a few approximations! I don't think
there is anything much better to be found on the WWW, though.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map. The nearest I have is an old
(1956) Bartholemew's Central London Atlas-Guide, but of course that's
now very out of date. The .pdf street maps in the TfL Journey Planner
also appear to be quite accurate, though it can be tricky to get it to
display the one you want.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong ones, they don't show tube-line routes.

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp double-bends on the
Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas shows it very
clearly at 4" to the mile - but I see that tube lines are not shown in
the 1961 edition of the same atlas.

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Richard J.
writes

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp
double-bends on the Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas
shows it very clearly at 4" to the mile - but I see that tube
lines are not shown in the 1961 edition of the same atlas.

.... not shown where they stay beneath roads, but shown elsewhere, eg the
Piccadilly between Russell Sq and KX, or the Northern from Waterloo to
Kennington.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry Salter
said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to excavate as
much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

There is also the diagram of Finsbury Park station at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro.../ltfinpark.gif which shows
that north of the station the Victoria Line climbs over the Piccadilly Line
and so is on the west of it. Therefore if you accept the diagram is
accurate there has to be a crossing of the lines sooner or later.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Graham J wrote:

We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry Salter
said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to excavate as
much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

There is also the diagram of Finsbury Park station at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro.../ltfinpark.gif which shows
that north of the station the Victoria Line climbs over the Piccadilly
Line and so is on the west of it. Therefore if you accept the diagram
is accurate there has to be a crossing of the lines sooner or later.

Are you suggesting i should take as the truth a 'map' posted on John
Rowland's website? Be gone with you, sir!

Seriously, though, cheers for the link.

Hang on, 'existing Northern City Line platforms used for southbound
Victoria Line & southbound Piccadilly'? I never realised that; i'd read
about the line being bottled up in a tube station under FP for political
reasons, but i hadn't twigged it meant *the* station. Are there still
tracks from it to the tube?

tom

--
see im down wid yo sci fi crew

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Tom Anderson writes

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate
information about the routes of underground railways? Are there some
sort of official maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for example the
Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or DLR at Bank.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map.

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate them
implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of knowledge about
the routes - which is what i'm after!

tom

--
see im down wid yo sci fi crew

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice
that according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is
indeed a little way south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably
too far to build a station with interchange, though.

I'd always assumed they cross somewhere between Manor House station and
Woodberry Grove, where there are shafts down to both lines. Woodberry Grove
is quite a way north of Harringay Green Lanes, IIRC.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Tom Anderson writes

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate
information about the routes of underground railways? Are there
some sort of official maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for
example the Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or
DLR at Bank.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map.

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can
evaluate them implies that you have some sort of authoritative
source of knowledge about the routes - which is what i'm after!

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't know enough to be able to say that
any map is accurate. But I do know enough to show that some maps (well,
all that I have seen, actually) are inaccurate. In the case of DLR Bank
and the Piccadilly east of South Ken, simple observation shows that the
map is not accurate. The Jubilee route "south" of Baker Street actually
goes via Regent's Park; I know because there's a Jubilee Line
ventilation shaft in the gardens north of Regent's Park station. Having
said that, I think the map is nevertheless one of the best I've seen.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)