Well, strictly speaking the DfT are running a consultation on the proposed
charge increases, but (UIVMM) it's a statutory consultation they have to do
as per the road user charging legislation, so in reality I think it's just
the DfT going through the motions - and it ends today, so should anyone have
any strong feelings on the matter they need to respond sharpish!

The documents are all he
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-08

The main consultation document is he
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-08/dft-2011-08-consultation-document.pdf

The proposals are for a two stage increase in the charges - the first
increase in "late 2011" and the second increase in "spring 2012".

Charges for cars will rise from £1.50 to £2.00, then £2.50.

Charges for 2 axle goods vehicles will rise from £2.00, to £2.50, then
£3.00.

Charges for multi axle goods vehicles will rise from £3.70 to £5.00, then
£6.00.

The Crossing will continue to be free between 10pm and 6am, as has been the
case since November '08 when the charges were last revised (then the charge
for cars went up from £1 to £1.50).

Charges for Dart-Tag holders will also rise, but will continue to offer a
discount over the normal (cash) charge.

There's talk of encouraging greater take up of the Dart-Tag, in particular
amongst car drivers, in preparation for future "free-flow charging
technology", which I think just means (unbarriered) express lanes as
featured on toll roads elsewhere.

It's interesting to read that take up of the local residents discount,
available since 2008 to residents of Dartford and Thurrock and implemented
via the Dart-Tag system, has been lower than anticipated - though the
document does go on to state that "very local journeys" using the Crossing
are minimal (which isn't surprising).

Whilst Ensignbus does run an hourly bus service through the tunnel, the X80 [*], the way to get across for free is to be on a bicycle - well, not
literally on a bike, rather a cyclist and their bike are carried for free on
request - my understanding is that we have the House of Lords to thank for
that, as they inserted a clause in the legislation to that effect. I am
curious as to whether there are actually any regular cycle commuters that
make use of the Dartford Crossing?

Regarding the rises in the Crossing charges, I wonder to what extent it
might push traffic seeking to avoid paying into routing via the Blackwall
Tunnel instead (i.e. via the A2 or A20 on the south side and the A12 or even
A13 on the north side) - away from the (long) peaks, e.g. in the middle of
the day, it could be a feasible alternative.

-----[*] http://www.ensignbus.com/bus_routes-X80.htm

"Mizter T" wrote:
Well, strictly speaking the DfT are running a consultation on the proposed
charge increases, but (UIVMM) it's a statutory consultation they have to
do as per the road user charging legislation, so in reality I think it's
just the DfT going through the motions - and it ends today, so should
anyone have any strong feelings on the matter they need to respond
sharpish!

The documents are all he
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-08

The main consultation document is he
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-08/dft-2011-08-consultation-document.pdf


I hadn't seen the following news story when I posted the above, but it would
seem a little late in the day for to be doing lobbying or trying to awaken
public consciousness on the matter!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15034996

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:55:08 +0100, Mizter T wrote:
Whilst Ensignbus does run an hourly bus service through the tunnel, the X80
[*], the way to get across for free is to be on a bicycle - well, not
literally on a bike, rather a cyclist and their bike are carried for free on
request - my understanding is that we have the House of Lords to thank for
that, as they inserted a clause in the legislation to that effect. I am
curious as to whether there are actually any regular cycle commuters that
make use of the Dartford Crossing?

I've crossed once on a bike, North to South, and can recommend the service
which was prompt and very friendly. IIRC the person that took us across
said there were 40 or 50 bikes a day and it did include a couple of
regular commuters.

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:55:08 +0100, "Mizter T"
wrote:


Regarding the rises in the Crossing charges, I wonder to what extent it
might push traffic seeking to avoid paying into routing via the Blackwall
Tunnel instead (i.e. via the A2 or A20 on the south side and the A12 or even
A13 on the north side) - away from the (long) peaks, e.g. in the middle of
the day, it could be a feasible alternative.


A2 to M11 via the Blackwall Tunnel is a good alternative at quiet
times. I often went that way at night before the Crossing went free -
distance wise it's not much further. Only a few traffic lights so it's
nearly nonstop, traffic permitting.

Paul Bowery wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:55:08 +0100, "Mizter T"
wrote:
Regarding the rises in the Crossing charges, I wonder to what extent it
might push traffic seeking to avoid paying into routing via the Blackwall
Tunnel instead (i.e. via the A2 or A20 on the south side and the A12 or even
A13 on the north side) - away from the (long) peaks, e.g. in the middle of
the day, it could be a feasible alternative.


A2 to M11 via the Blackwall Tunnel is a good alternative at quiet
times. I often went that way at night before the Crossing went free -
distance wise it's not much further. Only a few traffic lights so it's
nearly nonstop, traffic permitting.


It isn't nonstop if the Blackwall Tunnel is closed for maintenance,
which it often is.

On a recent evening trip to Kent via central London I just missed the
last Woolwich Ferry, turned back for the Blackwall Tunnel, which was
closed, and eventually joined a queue for the Rotherhithe Tunnel,
enduring a very slow and fume-laden trip through the bore. Even with
the air conditioning set to recirculate, it still drew in some air
from the outside, and we felt rather light headed by the time we
emerged into the fresh air on the south side.

"Bruce" wrote:

Paul Bowery wrote:

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:55:08 +0100, "Mizter T"
wrote:
Regarding the rises in the Crossing charges, I wonder to what extent it
might push traffic seeking to avoid paying into routing via the Blackwall
Tunnel instead (i.e. via the A2 or A20 on the south side and the A12 or
even
A13 on the north side) - away from the (long) peaks, e.g. in the middle
of
the day, it could be a feasible alternative.

A2 to M11 via the Blackwall Tunnel is a good alternative at quiet
times. I often went that way at night before the Crossing went free -
distance wise it's not much further. Only a few traffic lights so it's
nearly nonstop, traffic permitting.

It isn't nonstop if the Blackwall Tunnel is closed for maintenance,
which it often is.

On a recent evening trip to Kent via central London I just missed the
last Woolwich Ferry, turned back for the Blackwall Tunnel, which was
closed, and eventually joined a queue for the Rotherhithe Tunnel,
enduring a very slow and fume-laden trip through the bore. Even with
the air conditioning set to recirculate, it still drew in some air
from the outside, and we felt rather light headed by the time we
emerged into the fresh air on the south side.

The eastern bore of the Blackwall Tunnel is undergoing an extensive
refurbishment programme which means that the Tunnel is closed to southbound
traffic between 9pm and 5am Sunday to Thursday, and it's also closed to
southbound traffic for routine maintenance on Sunday mornings between 1am
and 8am (I think this is when the maintenance is done on the western bore).

The major refurbishment work is now due to be completed in December of this
year, after which I imagine they'll return to closing it once a week for
maintenance work (I think they used to rotate between the two bores each
week, and funneled northbound traffic through the other bore - i.e. the
Tunnel was closed to s/b traffic).

I wouldn't automatically think of heading out to Kent from central London
via the Woolwich Ferry, but perhaps there were other considerations at play.

I think the best policy for the Rotherhithe Tunnel is to turn all car
ventilation fans off altogether. The people one does see walking through it
never seem to have the pained look on their face that one feels they should
do! I reckon the GBP1.40/1.30 (peak/off-peak) it costs to take the East
London Line under the river is probably money well spent.

"Mizter T" wrote:
"Bruce" wrote:
Paul Bowery wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:55:08 +0100, "Mizter T"
wrote:
Regarding the rises in the Crossing charges, I wonder to what extent it
might push traffic seeking to avoid paying into routing via the Blackwall
Tunnel instead (i.e. via the A2 or A20 on the south side and the A12 or
even
A13 on the north side) - away from the (long) peaks, e.g. in the middle
of
the day, it could be a feasible alternative.

A2 to M11 via the Blackwall Tunnel is a good alternative at quiet
times. I often went that way at night before the Crossing went free -
distance wise it's not much further. Only a few traffic lights so it's
nearly nonstop, traffic permitting.

It isn't nonstop if the Blackwall Tunnel is closed for maintenance,
which it often is.

On a recent evening trip to Kent via central London I just missed the
last Woolwich Ferry, turned back for the Blackwall Tunnel, which was
closed, and eventually joined a queue for the Rotherhithe Tunnel,
enduring a very slow and fume-laden trip through the bore. Even with
the air conditioning set to recirculate, it still drew in some air
from the outside, and we felt rather light headed by the time we
emerged into the fresh air on the south side.

The eastern bore of the Blackwall Tunnel is undergoing an extensive
refurbishment programme which means that the Tunnel is closed to southbound
traffic between 9pm and 5am Sunday to Thursday, and it's also closed to
southbound traffic for routine maintenance on Sunday mornings between 1am
and 8am (I think this is when the maintenance is done on the western bore).

The major refurbishment work is now due to be completed in December of this
year, after which I imagine they'll return to closing it once a week for
maintenance work (I think they used to rotate between the two bores each
week, and funneled northbound traffic through the other bore - i.e. the
Tunnel was closed to s/b traffic).

I wouldn't automatically think of heading out to Kent from central London
via the Woolwich Ferry, but perhaps there were other considerations at play.


Believe it or not, It started with a desire to avoid the toll on the
Dartford Crossing (we didn't know it would have been free at that
time!) plus a desire to go on the ferry. Panic ensued as we were
expected by a certain time in Rochester, and missed the deadline by
almost two hours. It wasn't the best planned trip, but we laughed an
awful lot. When we finally arrived, our hosts were convinced that we
were tipsy. ;-)


I think the best policy for the Rotherhithe Tunnel is to turn all car
ventilation fans off altogether. The people one does see walking through it
never seem to have the pained look on their face that one feels they should
do! I reckon the GBP1.40/1.30 (peak/off-peak) it costs to take the East
London Line under the river is probably money well spent.


I like the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It is a museum piece. I like the
small diameter and the very sharp bends - this was designed for the
horse and cart after all. I also like the single ring of tunnel
segments on both approaches, which serves to indicate the height
limit. There's just something quaint about it all, a piece of
industrial archaeology that still serves a useful purpose. ;-)

In message , Bruce
writes

I like the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It is a museum piece. I like the
small diameter and the very sharp bends - this was designed for the
horse and cart after all.

The sharp bends being partly to stop horses from bolting had they been
able to see daylight at the far end of the tunnel.

But I always thought it was very short-sighted of the LCC not to take
better account of mechanised transport when they built it. After all,
motor buses were introduced before work on the tunnel started, and by
the time it opened (in 1908) horse buses had only another three years to
go. Similarly, car ownership was becoming less rare at the start of the
20th century (first London-Brighton run in 1896, RAC founded in 1897,
etc).

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Bruce
writes

I like the Rotherhithe Tunnel. It is a museum piece. I like the
small diameter and the very sharp bends - this was designed for the
horse and cart after all.

The sharp bends being partly to stop horses from bolting had they been
able to see daylight at the far end of the tunnel.

But I always thought it was very short-sighted of the LCC not to take
better account of mechanised transport when they built it. After all,
motor buses were introduced before work on the tunnel started, and by
the time it opened (in 1908) horse buses had only another three years to
go. Similarly, car ownership was becoming less rare at the start of the
20th century (first London-Brighton run in 1896, RAC founded in 1897,
etc).


Perhaps the LCC was deterred by the very high cost of the curved cast
iron tunnel linings needed to achieve radiused bends? It would have
been cheaper to build straight tunnels between shafts with sharp bends
at the shaft positions, which is what they did.