On Sep 30, 5:54*pm, Ian Jackson
wrote:

My approach is to ask one member of railway staff and if I don't like
the answer to ask another.

Right. Not so easy at Finsbury Park (there's two guys who are usually
there when I go and mine got the other one involved when I asked for a
claim form - he said that he could be a witness that he - the first
guy - hadn't been rude so I'm not entirely relaxed about either).

I can go into KX though. Lots of people there to chose from.

It would be nice if there were a sort of back-stop "we really
understand fares" place you could call or go to or somehow contact. I
wouldn't mind paying extra either. I'm happy that doing more complex
things will require a bit more effort. I just need to know how to
apply that effort and where to look.

Francis

On Sep 30, 9:11*pm, The Gardener wrote:

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office. Looking at my out-of-date Avatix program, there are two fares
listed: Not London (ie via CBG) and +Any Permitted. The + symbol, of
course, allows cross-London transfer by Underground appropriate to the
journey being made, so AFAICT travelling via Tottenham Hale and the
Victoria Line is permitted.

What I wasn't sure about is if + allows you to start (or end) at an
underground station. Ie. for the last leg of the journey to be made by
underground (at least in theory - of course I'd probably just use my
oyster for this bit).

How does one deduce that the Victoria Line is "permitted"?

Am I right in thinking that because there's a ticket via CBG it must
be "Any Permitted"?


Whoever the ticket seller is, though, he comes across as being either
incompetent or plain contemptuous of his customers and if I were the
OP, I would write a strongly-worded letter to the individual's
employer describing what happened.

I may well do that if I can summon up the energy. I have their name -
I forgot to get it so my wife went back and asked the other guy (to
avoid further conflict). He told her "its written on his name badge"
but was eventually persuaded to give the guy's name which was much
shorter. My wife deals a lot with customer service employees so she
was deeply unimpressed by it.

Thanks for all this useful information. At some point I might brave
trying to buy a ticket that does the job. I have a new part-time job
that may mean I go to Shelford a few times a month by train, so this
is all potentially very useful. Sometimes those journeys might have to
be via a break in Cambridge, but that's just me being awkward :-).

Francis

In message
, at
15:40:42 on Sat, 1 Oct 2011, Francis Davey remarked:
What I wasn't sure about is if + allows you to start (or end) at an
underground station. Ie. for the last leg of the journey to be made by
underground (at least in theory - of course I'd probably just use my
oyster for this bit).

How does one deduce that the Victoria Line is "permitted"?

This was explained in the old "Part A" of the Fares Manual, not to be
confused with Section A of the Routing Guide!

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-...routeing-guide

The old Part A is also not supplied with the CD-ROM "Avantix Traveller"
available for a tenner from HMSO. I've not found any evidence that it's
online at all at the moment, but presumably ticket sellers have access
to it in some form. The friendliest ticket seller I found was the one at
Meldreth station (but be quick, there are plans to turn it, and many
similar, into unmanned stations).

Anyway, here's an extract from Part A of Jan 2008 (NFM98 for the geeks)
which was the last published in that form online, afaict.

"Ticket prices in Section C, for journeys routed for travel ’via
London’ and marked with the symbol + include the cost of
transfer across London by London Underground, DLR or First
Capital Connect train services on the Thameslink route. Tickets
displaying the ’cross-London’ marker â€*, are valid for travel
between any two of the following stations appropriate to the
route of the through rail journey being made.

Aldgate Finsbury Park Queens Park
Amersham Greenwich Richmond
Baker Street Highbury & Islington Seven Sisters
Balham Kensington Olympia Southwark
Bank Kentish Town Stratford
Barking King’s Cross/St Tottenham Hale
Pancras
Blackfriars Lancaster Gate Tower Hill
Blackhorse Road Lewisham Upminster
Cannon Street Limehouse Vauxhall
Charing Cross Liverpool Street Victoria
Ealing Broadway London Bridge Walthamstow Ctl
Edgware Road Marylebone Waterloo
Elephant & Castle Moorgate West Brompton
Embankment New Cross Gate West Ham
Euston Old Street West Hampstead
Euston Square Paddington Wimbledon
Farringdon

Am I right in thinking that because there's a ticket via CBG it must
be "Any Permitted"?

There are two options from Finsbury Park to Cambridge: +London[1] and
Not-London. Any Permitted just means you can use either/both. The "Not
London" is also sold separately, of course.

[1] Where the + means "including underground transfers.
--
Roland Perry

We were about to embark at Dover, when (Roland Perry)
came up to me and whispered:

There are two options from Finsbury Park to Cambridge: +London[1]
and
Not-London.

You could always use the CLive Feather Discount, and buy a ticket from
Finsbury Park to London Stations...

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

In message , at
11:27:00 on Sun, 2 Oct 2011, Paul Cummins
remarked:
There are two options from Finsbury Park to Cambridge: +London[1] and
Not-London.

You could always use the CLive Feather Discount, and buy a ticket from
Finsbury Park to London Stations...

That was an alleged bug in the v1.0 routing guide.

Today's routing guide says the only map to use for such a ticket is EE
(initially I suppose it may have said WA[1]), which reveals just two
mapped routes (which are also direct trains, so the map isn't adding
anything) to Kings Cross and Moorgate.

[1] You can understand how that might have happened, WA is in other
respects a much more logical map to choose than what's in effect
"secondary ways to get from London to the North East".
--
Roland Perry

On Oct 2, 8:33Â*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
15:40:42 on Sat, 1 Oct 2011, Francis Davey remarked:

What I wasn't sure about is if + allows you to start (or end) at an
underground station. Ie. for the last leg of the journey to be made by
underground (at least in theory - of course I'd probably just use my
oyster for this bit).

How does one deduce that the Victoria Line is "permitted"?

This was explained in the old "Part A" of the Fares Manual, not to be
confused with Section A of the Routing Guide!

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-...routeing-guide

The old Part A is also not supplied with the CD-ROM "Avantix Traveller"
available for a tenner from HMSO. I've not found any evidence that it's
online at all at the moment, but presumably ticket sellers have access
to it in some form. The friendliest ticket seller I found was the one at
Meldreth station (but be quick, there are plans to turn it, and many
similar, into unmanned stations).

Going OT, FCC have been quoted in the local rag that they do not
intend to follow McNulty's recommendation regarding destaffing
stations. Four stations on the GN line had been proposed for
destaffing, namely Arlesey, Sandy, Ashwell and Morden and Meldreth.


Anyway, here's an extract from Part A of Jan 2008 (NFM98 for the geeks)
which was the last published in that form online, afaict.

"Ticket prices in Section C, for journeys routed for travel ’via
London’ and marked with the symbol + include the cost of
transfer across London by London Underground, DLR or First
Capital Connect train services on the Thameslink route. Tickets
displaying the ’cross-London’ marker â€*, are valid for travel
between any two of the following stations appropriate to the
route of the through rail journey being made.

Â*Aldgate Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Finsbury Park Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Queens Park
Â*Amersham Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Greenwich Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Richmond
Â*Baker Street Â* Â* Â* Â* Highbury & Islington Â* Â* Â*Seven Sisters
Â*Balham Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Kensington Olympia Â* Â* Â* Â*Southwark
Â*Bank Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Kentish Town Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Stratford
Â*Barking Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*King’s Cross/St Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Tottenham Hale
Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Pancras
Â*Blackfriars Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Lancaster Gate Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Tower Hill
Â*Blackhorse Road Â* Â* Â*Lewisham Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Upminster
Â*Cannon Street Â* Â* Â* Â*Limehouse Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Vauxhall
Â*Charing Cross Â* Â* Â* Â*Liverpool Street Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Victoria
Â*Ealing Broadway Â* Â* Â*London Bridge Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Walthamstow Ctl
Â*Edgware Road Â* Â* Â* Â* Marylebone Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Waterloo
Â*Elephant & Castle Â* Â*Moorgate Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*West Brompton
Â*Embankment Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* New Cross Gate Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*West Ham
Â*Euston Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Old Street Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*West Hampstead
Â*Euston Square Â* Â* Â* Â*Paddington Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Wimbledon
Â*Farringdon

Am I right in thinking that because there's a ticket via CBG it must
be "Any Permitted"?

There are two options from Finsbury Park to Cambridge: +London[1] and
Not-London. Any Permitted just means you can use either/both. The "Not
London" is also sold separately, of course.

[1] Where the + means "including underground transfers.
--
Roland Perry

Thanks for finding the reference. I have an old paper NFM which I have
kept for historical interest, which was my original source of info.

On Oct 2, 8:33*am, Roland Perry wrote:
Anyway, here's an extract from Part A of Jan 2008 (NFM98 for the geeks)
which was the last published in that form online, afaict.
It seems the current version of this information is at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...elling_connect

In message
, at
07:59:23 on Sun, 2 Oct 2011, "John @ home"
remarked:
Anyway, here's an extract from Part A of Jan 2008 (NFM98 for the geeks)
which was the last published in that form online, afaict.
It seems the current version of this information is at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...elling_connect

Hurrah! Thanks for finding that.

And it's written in a reasonably accessible style as well. The later
part about "London Terminals" is even better.
--
Roland Perry

We were about to embark at Dover, when (Roland Perry)
came up to me and whispered:

Today's routing guide says the only map to use for such a ticket is
EE (initially I suppose it may have said WA[1]), which reveals just
two mapped routes (which are also direct trains, so the map isn't
adding anything) to Kings Cross and Moorgate.

So how does one get to Liverpool Street?

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

In message , at
16:43:00 on Sun, 2 Oct 2011, Paul Cummins
remarked:
Today's routing guide says the only map to use for such a ticket is
EE (initially I suppose it may have said WA[1]), which reveals just
two mapped routes (which are also direct trains, so the map isn't
adding anything) to Kings Cross and Moorgate.

So how does one get to Liverpool Street?

On a Finsbury Park to London Terminals ticket? Not at all, I presume.
(Other than "Moorgate and walk a hundred yards")

See the quite good wording signposted earlier:

"Tickets issued for travel to/from London usually show 'London
Terminals' as the destination/origin rather than naming a
specific station. This is because the ticket is valid to more
than one London Terminal station provided it’s on any
reasonable line of route. Tickets can only be used on National
Rail services. For example, a ticket from Brighton to London
Terminals is valid to Victoria, Waterloo (changing at Clapham
Junction), London Bridge, Blackfriars and City Thameslink or
Charing Cross Waterloo East or Cannon Street (changing at London
Bridge). It would not be valid to, for example, London Euston or
Paddington as this would not be on the line of route and would
involve crossing London using another mode of transport."

--
Roland Perry