"Francis Davey" wrote in message
...
I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

Last time I did this I was sold a ticket:

From: U23* LONDN
To: Shelford Cambs
Route: NOT LONDON

I've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
Finsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

Is that right? Is there any way I can do this (I don't mind having to
buy underground tickets as well if necessary)?

Your help would be greatly appreciated. If there is a website that
explains all this, I am happy to look there.

National Rail's online journey planner shows different fares for the two
routes, but more importantly explicitly states that you need buy multiple
(ie two) tickets for the journey via Cambridge - that strongly suggests that
the advice at FP is correct...

The U23* origin is an underground ticket, but AFAICS having bought it you
are constrained to the Victoria Line and a change at Tottenham Hale.

I think it is a route where once you've bought a ticket (or tickets) for one
route or the other you lose the other choice...

Paul

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Paul Scott" considered Wed, 28 Sep
2011 19:02:26 +0100 the perfect time to write:

"Francis Davey" wrote in message
...
I wondered if anyone can help me. I've just had a very unhelpful
discussion with a ticket vendor at Finsbury Park station, but i don't
entirely trust his response.

I'd like to travel from Finsbury Park to Shelford (Cambridgeshire).
There are two obvious routes: (1) train to Cambridge and then train to
Shelford; (2) Tube to Tottenham Hale and then train to Shelford.

I'll probably go via Cambridge, but coming back it looks like both
routes may be quickest depending on when I arrive at the station
(which is a random variable).

Last time I did this I was sold a ticket:

From: U23* LONDN
To: Shelford Cambs
Route: NOT LONDON

I've now been told this is wrong as it won't allow me to travel from
Finsbury Park to Shelford via Cambridge.

Is that right? Is there any way I can do this (I don't mind having to
buy underground tickets as well if necessary)?

Your help would be greatly appreciated. If there is a website that
explains all this, I am happy to look there.

National Rail's online journey planner shows different fares for the two
routes, but more importantly explicitly states that you need buy multiple
(ie two) tickets for the journey via Cambridge - that strongly suggests
that
the advice at FP is correct...

The U23* origin is an underground ticket, but AFAICS having bought it you
are constrained to the Victoria Line and a change at Tottenham Hale.

I think it is a route where once you've bought a ticket (or tickets) for
one
route or the other you lose the other choice...

Paul

This has been a total mess for at least the last 25 years.
My wife's best friend, who was staying at her aunt's in Hoddesdon, was
made to route via Liverpool St, King's Cross and Royston to get to
Meldreth to meet my wife for our wedding where she was to be a
bridesmaid. Royston was being run as a sort of double ended terminus
in those days, as it was the limit of electrification, which made the
route via Cambridge both shorter and much quicker, and the one we had
worked out timetabling for (being by far the most obvious).
Obviously, this was pre-mobile phones, so we had no idea why she was
delayed, or any chance to give her any advice (she didn't know this
part of the country at all), so she was left completely at the mercy
of the numpty selling tickets at Hoddesdon.

If he'd had any sense at all, he'd have advised her to get 2 returns -
Hoddesdon - Cambridge and Cambridge - Meldreth, even if it wasn't
offered as a single ticket route.
I think they'd rather run empty trains, and have the potential
passengers drive instead.

I can't make up my mind whether some of these problems stem from the person
in the ticket office, the local manager or the TOC. Experience with a
range for FGW offices tends to suggest a localised problem rather than the
TOC because I've had some (one in particular) refuse to sell valid
combinations where others might grumble at the amount of work but do as
requested. The one that refuses to sell certain things has been doing it
since Thames Trains days and the staff in the office haven't changed much so
I'm guessing it's totally localised. I did complain on one occasion and
things improved for a while but a recent incident shows they are back to
their old, bad, ways again.

On Sep 29, 12:26*pm, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

I can't make up my mind whether some of these problems stem from the person
in the ticket office, the local manager or the TOC. * Experience with a
range for FGW offices tends to suggest a localised problem rather than the
TOC because I've had some (one in particular) refuse to sell valid
combinations where others might grumble at the amount of work but do as
requested. * The one that refuses to sell certain things has been doing it
since Thames Trains days and the staff in the office haven't changed much so
I'm guessing it's totally localised. * I did complain on one occasion and
things improved for a while but a recent incident shows they are back to
their old, bad, ways again.

In this case the person acted rather oddly towards me when I explained
what I wanted (using the same language I had on previous successful
occasions). Part of the problem was that he "explained" to me why it
was impossible to get a ticket to do what I wanted on a number of
obviously incorrect bases. Since previous ticket sellers have sold me
tickets that they thought would work, and since he was obviously
reasoning incorrectly, I wasn't immediately convinced. He also began
by saying he "didn't know" but only became categorical later.

For example: he explained that if I bought a ticket via Cambridge that
would be using FGW trains and the money would go "into their pot"
whereas a ticket via Tottenham Hale would be a different train
company. As a result I couldn't buy a ticket that went over both.

This was so breathtakingly wrong I didn't really know how to react - I
mean pretty much anyone who travels at all by trains knows you can get
tickets that use more than one company, eg (I hadn't realised this at
the time) FP = Shelford via Cambridge.

He implied that I could have a ticket and risk what National Express
would say (i.e. whether they would accept it) and didn't seem to think
it was his job to help me find a suitable ticket.

He was quite cross with me by the end. I asked for a complaint form
and that made him crosser. He called me back and asked me how I needed
a complaint and then harangued me a bit. Eventually I had to break it
off and go. Really good not customer service.

Thanks for the help. I tried reading the routing guide for the first
time last night. Hmmmm. Its not the easiest work to absorb and I'm not
sure how the underground fits in. I wish there was someone you could
ask (I thought this was the train staff).

Francis

Anyone her want to comment on this at all;'?...


I can't make up my mind whether some of these problems stem from the person
in the ticket office, the local manager or the TOC. * Experience with a
range for FGW offices tends to suggest a localised problem rather than the
TOC because I've had some (one in particular) refuse to sell valid
combinations where others might grumble at the amount of work but do as
requested. * The one that refuses to sell certain things has been doing it
since Thames Trains days and the staff in the office haven't changed much so
I'm guessing it's totally localised. * I did complain on one occasion and
things improved for a while but a recent incident shows they are back to
their old, bad, ways again.

In this case the person acted rather oddly towards me when I explained
what I wanted (using the same language I had on previous successful
occasions). Part of the problem was that he "explained" to me why it
was impossible to get a ticket to do what I wanted on a number of
obviously incorrect bases. Since previous ticket sellers have sold me
tickets that they thought would work, and since he was obviously
reasoning incorrectly, I wasn't immediately convinced. He also began
by saying he "didn't know" but only became categorical later.

For example: he explained that if I bought a ticket via Cambridge that
would be using FGW trains and the money would go "into their pot"
whereas a ticket via Tottenham Hale would be a different train
company. As a result I couldn't buy a ticket that went over both.

This was so breathtakingly wrong I didn't really know how to react - I
mean pretty much anyone who travels at all by trains knows you can get
tickets that use more than one company, eg (I hadn't realised this at
the time) FP = Shelford via Cambridge.

He implied that I could have a ticket and risk what National Express
would say (i.e. whether they would accept it) and didn't seem to think
it was his job to help me find a suitable ticket.

He was quite cross with me by the end. I asked for a complaint form
and that made him crosser. He called me back and asked me how I needed
a complaint and then harangued me a bit. Eventually I had to break it
off and go. Really good not customer service.

Thanks for the help. I tried reading the routing guide for the first
time last night. Hmmmm. Its not the easiest work to absorb and I'm not
sure how the underground fits in. I wish there was someone you could
ask (I thought this was the train staff).

Francis

--
Tony Sayer

On Sep 29, 9:12*pm, tony sayer wrote:
Anyone her want to comment on this at all;'?...





I can't make up my mind whether some of these problems stem from the person
in the ticket office, the local manager or the TOC. * Experience with a
range for FGW offices tends to suggest a localised problem rather than the
TOC because I've had some (one in particular) refuse to sell valid
combinations where others might grumble at the amount of work but do as
requested. * The one that refuses to sell certain things has been doing it
since Thames Trains days and the staff in the office haven't changed much so
I'm guessing it's totally localised. * I did complain on one occasion and
things improved for a while but a recent incident shows they are back to
their old, bad, ways again.

In this case the person acted rather oddly towards me when I explained
what I wanted (using the same language I had on previous successful
occasions). Part of the problem was that he "explained" to me why it
was impossible to get a ticket to do what I wanted on a number of
obviously incorrect bases. Since previous ticket sellers have sold me
tickets that they thought would work, and since he was obviously
reasoning incorrectly, I wasn't immediately convinced. He also began
by saying he "didn't know" but only became categorical later.

For example: he explained that if I bought a ticket via Cambridge that
would be using FGW trains and the money would go "into their pot"
whereas a ticket via Tottenham Hale would be a different train
company. As a result I couldn't buy a ticket that went over both.

This was so breathtakingly wrong I didn't really know how to react - I
mean pretty much anyone who travels at all by trains knows you can get
tickets that use more than one company, eg (I hadn't realised this at
the time) FP = Shelford via Cambridge.

He implied that I could have a ticket and risk what National Express
would say (i.e. whether they would accept it) and didn't seem to think
it was his job to help me find a suitable ticket.

He was quite cross with me by the end. I asked for a complaint form
and that made him crosser. He called me back and asked me how I needed
a complaint and then harangued me a bit. Eventually I had to break it
off and go. Really good not customer service.

Thanks for the help. I tried reading the routing guide for the first
time last night. Hmmmm. Its not the easiest work to absorb and I'm not
sure how the underground fits in. I wish there was someone you could
ask (I thought this was the train staff).

Francis

--
Tony Sayer

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office. Looking at my out-of-date Avatix program, there are two fares
listed: Not London (ie via CBG) and +Any Permitted. The + symbol, of
course, allows cross-London transfer by Underground appropriate to the
journey being made, so AFAICT travelling via Tottenham Hale and the
Victoria Line is permitted.

Whoever the ticket seller is, though, he comes across as being either
incompetent or plain contemptuous of his customers and if I were the
OP, I would write a strongly-worded letter to the individual's
employer describing what happened.

"The Gardener" wrote in message
...

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office.

It's quite clearly Finsbury Park if reading the original post in uk.t.l

The reference to FGW is an error...

Paul S

On Oct 1, 1:57*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"The Gardener" wrote in message

...

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office.

It's quite clearly Finsbury Park if reading the original post in uk.t.l

The reference to FGW is an error...


It is. Mea culpa.

Francis

On 01/10/2011 13:57, Paul Scott wrote:
"The Gardener" wrote in message
...

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office.

It's quite clearly Finsbury Park if reading the original post in uk.t.l

The reference to FGW is an error...

Paul S

Possibly he meant First Capital Connect, which is hardly fair on FGW.

--
Moving things in still pictures

On Sep 30, 9:11*pm, The Gardener wrote:

It's not clear at which station the OP is trying to buy a ticket but I
guess, from the references to FGW, that it must be an FGW ticket
office. Looking at my out-of-date Avatix program, there are two fares
listed: Not London (ie via CBG) and +Any Permitted. The + symbol, of
course, allows cross-London transfer by Underground appropriate to the
journey being made, so AFAICT travelling via Tottenham Hale and the
Victoria Line is permitted.

What I wasn't sure about is if + allows you to start (or end) at an
underground station. Ie. for the last leg of the journey to be made by
underground (at least in theory - of course I'd probably just use my
oyster for this bit).

How does one deduce that the Victoria Line is "permitted"?

Am I right in thinking that because there's a ticket via CBG it must
be "Any Permitted"?


Whoever the ticket seller is, though, he comes across as being either
incompetent or plain contemptuous of his customers and if I were the
OP, I would write a strongly-worded letter to the individual's
employer describing what happened.

I may well do that if I can summon up the energy. I have their name -
I forgot to get it so my wife went back and asked the other guy (to
avoid further conflict). He told her "its written on his name badge"
but was eventually persuaded to give the guy's name which was much
shorter. My wife deals a lot with customer service employees so she
was deeply unimpressed by it.

Thanks for all this useful information. At some point I might brave
trying to buy a ticket that does the job. I have a new part-time job
that may mean I go to Shelford a few times a month by train, so this
is all potentially very useful. Sometimes those journeys might have to
be via a break in Cambridge, but that's just me being awkward :-).

Francis

In message
, at
15:40:42 on Sat, 1 Oct 2011, Francis Davey remarked:
What I wasn't sure about is if + allows you to start (or end) at an
underground station. Ie. for the last leg of the journey to be made by
underground (at least in theory - of course I'd probably just use my
oyster for this bit).

How does one deduce that the Victoria Line is "permitted"?

This was explained in the old "Part A" of the Fares Manual, not to be
confused with Section A of the Routing Guide!

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-...routeing-guide

The old Part A is also not supplied with the CD-ROM "Avantix Traveller"
available for a tenner from HMSO. I've not found any evidence that it's
online at all at the moment, but presumably ticket sellers have access
to it in some form. The friendliest ticket seller I found was the one at
Meldreth station (but be quick, there are plans to turn it, and many
similar, into unmanned stations).

Anyway, here's an extract from Part A of Jan 2008 (NFM98 for the geeks)
which was the last published in that form online, afaict.

"Ticket prices in Section C, for journeys routed for travel ’via
London’ and marked with the symbol + include the cost of
transfer across London by London Underground, DLR or First
Capital Connect train services on the Thameslink route. Tickets
displaying the ’cross-London’ marker â€*, are valid for travel
between any two of the following stations appropriate to the
route of the through rail journey being made.

Aldgate Finsbury Park Queens Park
Amersham Greenwich Richmond
Baker Street Highbury & Islington Seven Sisters
Balham Kensington Olympia Southwark
Bank Kentish Town Stratford
Barking King’s Cross/St Tottenham Hale
Pancras
Blackfriars Lancaster Gate Tower Hill
Blackhorse Road Lewisham Upminster
Cannon Street Limehouse Vauxhall
Charing Cross Liverpool Street Victoria
Ealing Broadway London Bridge Walthamstow Ctl
Edgware Road Marylebone Waterloo
Elephant & Castle Moorgate West Brompton
Embankment New Cross Gate West Ham
Euston Old Street West Hampstead
Euston Square Paddington Wimbledon
Farringdon

Am I right in thinking that because there's a ticket via CBG it must
be "Any Permitted"?

There are two options from Finsbury Park to Cambridge: +London[1] and
Not-London. Any Permitted just means you can use either/both. The "Not
London" is also sold separately, of course.

[1] Where the + means "including underground transfers.
--
Roland Perry