I've an old A-Z someone gave me, interesting to checking out changes to streets
and whether my memory is right, but I've also recently looked at the tube map
in it, different in the way some lines are drawn but also with some differences
in content.
I recognised the old South Acton spur, and Trafalgar Square, and what is now
the Heathrow section of the Picadilly Line then stopped at Hounslow West. Some
other bits were less familiar, and as the map is only black-and-white, its not
clear whether they were all tube lines. I think I remember the Bakerloo Line
doubling with BR as far as Watford Junction, but did the Met through Amersham
continue as far as Aylesbury? Another interesting bit is between Old Street and
Finsbury Park, with stations shown at Essex Road, Highbury and Islington and
Drayton Park.
Anybody have more info on these? And as the A-Z does not have a date of
publication, could anyone make a rough stab

CharlesPottins wrote:
I've an old A-Z someone gave me, interesting to checking out changes
to streets and whether my memory is right, but I've also recently
looked at the tube map in it, different in the way some lines are
drawn but also with some differences in content.
I recognised the old South Acton spur, and Trafalgar Square, and what
is now the Heathrow section of the Picadilly Line then stopped at
Hounslow West. Some other bits were less familiar, and as the map is
only black-and-white, its not clear whether they were all tube lines.
I think I remember the Bakerloo Line doubling with BR as far as
Watford Junction, but did the Met through Amersham continue as far as
Aylesbury? Another interesting bit is between Old Street and Finsbury
Park, with stations shown at Essex Road, Highbury and Islington and
Drayton Park.
Anybody have more info on these? And as the A-Z does not have a date
of publication, could anyone make a rough stab

One way to date the map that you have is to compare it with the maps at The
London Tube Map Archive at http://www.sitehouse.net/cdl/maps.html.

The Met went as far as Aylesbury until 1961.

For the history of the line from Moorgate to Finsbury Park, originally the
Great Northern and City Railway, see
http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/northern.html#GNCR in Clive Feather's site.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

THis page has a load of old maps on it and a bit of histiry
http://clives.members.easyspace.com/tube/tube.html




"CharlesPottins" wrote in message
...
I've an old A-Z someone gave me, interesting to checking out changes to
streets
and whether my memory is right, but I've also recently looked at the tube
map
in it, different in the way some lines are drawn but also with some
differences
in content.
I recognised the old South Acton spur, and Trafalgar Square, and what is
now
the Heathrow section of the Picadilly Line then stopped at Hounslow West.
Some
other bits were less familiar, and as the map is only black-and-white, its
not
clear whether they were all tube lines. I think I remember the Bakerloo
Line
doubling with BR as far as Watford Junction, but did the Met through
Amersham
continue as far as Aylesbury? Another interesting bit is between Old
Street and
Finsbury Park, with stations shown at Essex Road, Highbury and Islington
and
Drayton Park.
Anybody have more info on these? And as the A-Z does not have a date of
publication, could anyone make a rough stab

On 10 Jan 2004 23:58:20 GMT, (CharlesPottins)
wrote:

I've an old A-Z someone gave me, interesting to checking out changes to streets
and whether my memory is right, but I've also recently looked at the tube map
in it, different in the way some lines are drawn but also with some differences
in content.
I recognised the old South Acton spur, and Trafalgar Square, and what is now
the Heathrow section of the Picadilly Line then stopped at Hounslow West. Some
other bits were less familiar, and as the map is only black-and-white, its not
clear whether they were all tube lines. I think I remember the Bakerloo Line
doubling with BR as far as Watford Junction, but did the Met through Amersham
continue as far as Aylesbury? Another interesting bit is between Old Street and
Finsbury Park, with stations shown at Essex Road, Highbury and Islington and
Drayton Park.
Anybody have more info on these? And as the A-Z does not have a date of
publication, could anyone make a rough stab

Probably Pre 1958

Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Nigel ), in
message who said:
On 10 Jan 2004 23:58:20 GMT, (CharlesPottins)
wrote:

I've an old A-Z someone gave me, interesting to checking out changes
to streets and whether my memory is right, but I've also recently
looked at the tube map in it, different in the way some lines are
drawn but also with some differences in content.
I recognised the old South Acton spur, and Trafalgar Square, and
what is now the Heathrow section of the Picadilly Line then stopped
at Hounslow West. Some other bits were less familiar, and as the map
is only black-and-white, its not clear whether they were all tube
lines. I think I remember the Bakerloo Line doubling with BR as far
as Watford Junction, but did the Met through Amersham continue as
far as Aylesbury? Another interesting bit is between Old Street and
Finsbury Park, with stations shown at Essex Road, Highbury and
Islington and Drayton Park.
Anybody have more info on these? And as the A-Z does not have a date
of publication, could anyone make a rough stab

Probably Pre 1958


Indeed, as South Acton closed about 1959.

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed to Wood Lane) then
it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no longer called Trinity Road, then it's
post-1950.

BTN

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed
to Wood Lane) then it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no
longer called Trinity Road, then it's post-1950.

Since there are maps currently sold which show Aldwych station and Southwark
station as both open, you would have to correlate a lot of different bits of
evidence before you could be reasonably certain of the date of a historic
map.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed
to Wood Lane) then it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no
longer called Trinity Road, then it's post-1950.

Since there are maps currently sold which show Aldwych station and
Southwark
station as both open, you would have to correlate a lot of different bits
of
evidence before you could be reasonably certain of the date of a historic
map.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001


Hah Haar !

Mr. Rowland forgot ALL ABOUT Morning Crescent

Hah Haar !

"Seanie O'Kilfoyle" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed
to Wood Lane) then it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no
longer called Trinity Road, then it's post-1950.

Since there are maps currently sold which show Aldwych station and
Southwark
station as both open, you would have to correlate a lot of different
bits
of
evidence before you could be reasonably certain of the date of a
historic
map.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001


Hah Haar !

Mr. Rowland forgot ALL ABOUT MorningTON Crescent

Hah Haar !

Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was John Rowland
), in message
who said:
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed
to Wood Lane) then it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no
longer called Trinity Road, then it's post-1950.

Since there are maps currently sold which show Aldwych station and
Southwark station as both open, you would have to correlate a lot of
different bits of evidence before you could be reasonably certain of
the date of a historic map.


Indeed.

I suppose that realistically one cannot tell how old a map is, only how new
it is - e.g. it's newer than the most recent addition reflected on the map.

Thus a map sold now can show Aldwych as being open, but a map from when
Aldwych was open will never show Southwark - e.g. Southwark on a map means
it's newer than 1999, but Aldwych on a map doesn't necessarily mean it's old
than 1994.

In this case we can look for positive changes - White City, Trinity Road
etc. to determine that the map is newer than NNNN date, but cannot rely on
the negative changes - the presence of South Action.

BTN

Ben Nunn:
Indeed, as South Acton closed about 1959.

Yes, that's the earliest of the changes Charles mentioned, and it has
to be before that.

If the map has White City on the Central Line (as opposed to Wood Lane) then
it's post-1947. If Tooting Bec is no longer called Trinity Road, then it's
post-1950.

There were two significant service changes in the late 1950s that might
have been reflected on the map, but they weren't, so they doesn't help.
The Epping-Ongar service changed from BR steam trains to electric tube
trains -- but still without running trains through Epping -- in 1957, and
the Aldwych branch changed from full-time to rush-hour service in 1958.
But I'm looking at some 1950s maps in Garland's book right now, and as
I said, these changes aren't shown at all. The "rush hour" annotation
appeared on the map sometime later.

I'm curious whether this monochrome version is laid out the same as the
full-color version of that period. I would expect so, but let's see.

* Most lines are horizontal or vertical; the only diagonal sections are
the Central Line's West Ruislip branch, the Bakerloo south of Baker
Street, the Waterloo & City, and two sections of the Piccadilly.

* At the points where a line is shown as changing direction, it is
drawn as curved, except in some of the places (e.g. Rayners Lane,
Acton Town, Baker Street) where there is also an interchange there.

* Except for the Circle Line, where two lines share track -- e.g. the
branches to Uxbridge, Hounslow West, and Barking -- they are drawn
as if two separate lines, with station symbols on both, but only one
station name for the pair.

* Triple-circle interchange symbols are used at the following stations.
Laid out horizontally: Waterloo. In a triangle: Charing Cross, Holborn.
Vertical: Hammersmith, King's Cross St. Pancras, Mile End. Diagonal:
Moorgate. Vertical/diagonal combination: Paddington, Bank, Whitechapel.
(Charing Cross, of course, is the station now called Embankment.)

* 2 southern, 3 western, and 6 of the northern termini are all aligned
near the respective edges of the map, and the other 3 northern termini
(Stanmore, Edgware, Mill Hill East) are drawn aligned with each other.

Is that what it's like?
--
Mark Brader | "Do I look stupid?"
Toronto | "Yes, actually, a little. It's one of your
| greatest professional assets."
| -- Spider Robinson, "Lady Slings the Booze"

My text in this article is in the public domain.