Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 07/01/2012 21:52, Ian wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2012 10:57, Paul Rigg wrote:
I think his point was, and I think he is right, that the DDR authorities
allowed anyone to cross the wall who was either not one of their own
nationals or a national of another country (ie the Eastern Block) with
whom they had an agreement to stop travel.

Did Soviet officers often cross into West Berlin for the day?
Some most certainly did. To keep an eye on the allies, and also to provide a
guard at Spandau Prison. That is why the Russians would not free him.

The West also had military missions into East Berlin.


I know that the Soviet War Memorial was in West Berlin, and that the
Soviets also had an honour guard posted there.

But I wonder how many just came across for the day to have lunch or
something of that nature.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 07/01/2012 22:42, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote in
:

On 06/01/2012 10:57, Paul Rigg wrote:
I think his point was, and I think he is right, that the DDR
authorities allowed anyone to cross the wall who was either not one
of their own nationals or a national of another country (ie the
Eastern Block) with whom they had an agreement to stop travel.

Did Soviet officers often cross into West Berlin for the day?

It happened. According to the Four Power Agreements soldiers of all four
countries were allowed to patrol in any of the four sectors, and that
was enforced until 1990. I was on day trips in East Berlin maybe a dozen
times before 1989, and I think I saw French, UK or US soldiers in
uniform there every time, doing sightseeing, or shopping, or whatever. I
remember seeing a Soviet patrol in uniform in West Berlin only once or
twice. And guess what, they went shopping.

West Berlin was technically not a part of the Bundesrepublik, IIRC,
although its citizens did have West German passports.

Yes, but not West German ID cards. Other differences were that no West
German military activity of any kind was allowed there, and thus no
conscription. Which is why many young men from West Germany chose to
stay there. Flight connections from West Berlin to West Germany could
only be operated by US, UK or French carriers, which is why for example
BA (earlier BEA) had domestic German routes. The budget airline
"Deutsche BA" who continued into the 1990s was a leftover from this era.
The still existing "Air Berlin" is too, they were originally a nominal
US airline, even though Berlin based. And West Berlin had seperate
stamps.


I also remember hearing that West Germans who relocated to West Berlin
also received some sort of tax incentive. Nicht wahr?

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 07/01/2012 22:42, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

So, there was literally no border control on the West Berlin side when
crossing from East Berlin? Nobody even checking passports?

No

What about at the Inner German Border?

There were regular passport controls there. There were also passport
controls on border crossings between West Berlin and surrounding GDR.


Yes, I remember that. I remember having to go through border control
when I entered East Berlin in the late '80s.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 07/01/2012 22:42, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

AIUI, Poles during the communist era were allowed to visit West Berlin,
but I don't know if they were allowed to go into West Germany from there.

They could always board a plane.

From where?

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 07/01/2012 22:42, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote in
:

On 04/01/2012 21:41, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
Lüko wrote
in :

I am quite sure that Friedrichstraße was the only East Berlin
S-Bahn
station where one could buy S-Bahn tickets towards West Berlin in
DM. And only in the "non-socialist currency" area, i.e. the area
which acted as an exchange station for intra West Berlin traffic.

In the "eastern" part of the station there was a ticket counter where
you could buy the same tickets at the same price in East German
marks. And at least until 1984 those tickets were available all over
East Berlin. Maybe after 1984 only at Friedrichstraße, I'm not sure.

Were those at the subsidised price of 20 pfennig?

No! They were at the same price that DR sold S-Bahn tickets within West
Berlin, which used to be 10 or 20 Pf below those of BVG, in line with
their fare rises which happened regularly.

It wouldn't surprise
if they would have wanted to see exit documents from the DDR if buying
a ticket into West Berlin,

No.


What do you mean when you say no? Would there not have been border
control coming from East Berlin into West Berlin?

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 08/01/2012 01:20, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote in
:

On 07/01/2012 22:42, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

AIUI, Poles during the communist era were allowed to visit West
Berlin, but I don't know if they were allowed to go into West
Germany from there.

They could always board a plane.

From where?

West Berlin to West Germany.


I would imagine that this would have been more difficult as this would
have required a visa.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 08/01/2012 01:20, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

It wouldn't surprise
if they would have wanted to see exit documents from the DDR if buying
a ticket into West Berlin,

No.


What do you mean when you say no? Would there not have been border
control coming from East Berlin into West Berlin?

Yes, they would be inside Friedrichstraße station. But they were
separate from the ticket sale. DR would sell the ticket from East to
West Berlin to anyone in any currency they chose without checking the
passport.

So, I guess you went through the border control first, and then bought
your ticket.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 08/01/2012 01:20, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

I also remember hearing that West Germans who relocated to West Berlin
also received some sort of tax incentive. Nicht wahr?

Employees who worked in West Berlin received the "Berlinzulage"
("Berlin bonus") of 8 percent added to their salary.

Not bad, I suppose. Similar to what they do in Canada, for example, when
people receive premiums to their salary for being in remote northern areas.

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??
 

On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:33:13 -0800 (PST) [UTC], ian batten wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:26*pm, Ross wrote:

2) Assuming he did, and that he was foolish enough to fire any gay
person on the grounds of sexuality, the lawyers would have been onto
him even faster

Discrimination on grounds of sexuality was legal up until shamefully
recently.

Wiki suggests 2003, which surprises me as I thought it was rather
earlier.

Perhaps BR was ahead of the pack; it was one of the variants of
discrimination the railway claimed not to accept in the supervisory
course I did back in early 1997 (a Central TOU/CTL course, but using
"BR" course material, as many courses did at that time).

("BR" being shorthand for something cross-sector by that time)
--
Ross

Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else
- unless I make it clear that I am...

Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??
 

On 08/01/2012 02:01, wrote:
On 08/01/2012 01:20, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote
in :

I also remember hearing that West Germans who relocated to West Berlin
also received some sort of tax incentive. Nicht wahr?

Employees who worked in West Berlin received the "Berlinzulage"
("Berlin bonus") of 8 percent added to their salary.

Not bad, I suppose. Similar to what they do in Canada, for example, when
people receive premiums to their salary for being in remote northern areas.

An idea for Middlesbrough?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK