On 02/01/2012 12:19, Lüko Willms wrote:
Am 01.01.2012 22:23, schrieb Wolfgang Schwanke:
Upsides of the communist era:

you forgot the quotes around "communist".
No

Wrong -- see quoted above your original text. There are no quotes around
"communist".


The rest of the lines within Westberlin were actually closed down
for profitability reasons, if you want to employ that word. The GDR
did
not want to subsidise public transit in another country, a country
which was very hostile to the govenment which subsidised the S-Bahn in
Westberlin.

Oh they did want to do that for much of the time, once they even
claimed the railway lines in West Berlin were East German territory.

The GDR did never have to claim that. This was a fact created by the
occupation statues.

When Schumacher and other West German politicians diveded the county and
Berlin itself, they carefully avoided to challenge the occupation regime
and had kept the Berlin Generaldirektion of the Reichsbahn (or how that
was called) intact.

But somehow they'd lost interest after the employees demanded more
money. So instead of paying more they shut the system down.

Well, that was part of the process. If the Westberlin Senate had offered
their subsidies to the Reichsbahn to operate a proper S-Bahn network,
like they subsidised the U-Bahn in the West, then the Reichsbahn would
certainly have wanted to keep it up, and maybe even expand it. But the
Westberlin rules did the opposite: they did everything to destroy the
S-Bahn network, waging a big campaign against using the S-Bahn and
building U-Bahn lines to directly draw passengers off from the S-Bahn
(e.g. U7 to Spandau).

I know, in the times of Orwellian doublespeak it is difficult to
recognize facts. But you should make an effort.



Cheers,
L.W.

Where were the people who worked on the Berlin S-Bahn in West Berlin
from during the city's partition?

I understand that actual train drivers were East German, but what about
station attendants and track workers

No politics, just asking purely out of curiosity.

wrote:

Where were the people who worked on the Berlin S-Bahn in West Berlin
from during the city's partition?

They were from West-Berlin. Somne who were not, became inhabitants
of West-Berlin very soon.


Oliver Schnell

On 02/01/2012 13:29, Oliver Schnell wrote:
wrote:

Where were the people who worked on the Berlin S-Bahn in West Berlin
from during the city's partition?

They were from West-Berlin. Somne who were not, became inhabitants
of West-Berlin very soon.


Oliver Schnell
But the train drivers themselves were East German, as I understood. DR
also made sure that the drivers had families in the east, just in case
they started thinking staying in the west.

On 02/01/12 13:40, wrote:
But the train drivers themselves were East German, as I understood. DR
also made sure that the drivers had families in the east, just in case
they started thinking staying in the west.

Surely the superior employment conditions were more than enough to keep
them in the east without all this business of family hostages,
minefields, machine guns and so on?

Ian

Am 02.01.2012 20:14, schrieb The Real Doctor:
On 02/01/12 13:40, wrote:
But the train drivers themselves were East German, as I understood. DR
also made sure that the drivers had families in the east, just in case
they started thinking staying in the west.

Surely the superior employment conditions were more than enough to keep
them in the east without all this business of family hostages,
minefields, machine guns and so on?

And that is what Herr Schnell wants to destroy.

And you are trying to evade to understand what Herr Schnell is
proposing to destroy "the last socialistic company", as he wrote in his
own words, by telling stories of shooting workers and all the rubbish
from your garbage can of propaganda. No, Herr Schnell does not want to
shoot all railway workers in Berlin. He only wants to humiliate them
enough so that they lose everything and are helpless objects of the
capitalist whip. Making a profitable company for DB AG or what ever
other capitalist.

You avoid at all cost to consider the facts. Instead you vomit this
old age garbage propaganda out.

Facts, facts, facts. That's the only thing which counts.

You don't want to know the facts about the real Berlin railway
workers, only the artificial figures from your propaganda.

You are really a poor figure.


L.W.

On 02/01/12 23:50, Lüko Willms wrote:
No, Herr Schnell does not want to shoot all railway workers in Berlin.

You misunderstand me. It was your chums in the DDR politbüro who were
prepared to shoot working class people who wanted to move to the west.
As you say, current politicians are nowhere near as bad.

Ian

Am 03.01.2012 00:57, schrieb The Real Doctor:
No, Herr Schnell does not want to shoot all railway workers in Berlin.

You misunderstand me. It was your chums in the DDR politbüro who were
prepared to shoot working class people who wanted to move to the west.

What has that to do with the current situation of the Berlin railway
workers? And the fact that your reactionary cothinker Herr Schnell sees
a need to drastically lower the living standard and working conditions
of those workers, in order to turn the Berlin S-Bahn into a proper
capitalistic profit generating company?

Please elaborate on the subject of discussion instead of constantly
trying to turn the attention of your public away from it by makeing loud
noises about off-topic issues?


L.W.

Am 03.01.2012 00:58, schrieb Wolfgang Schwanke:
Lüko wrote

And you are trying to evade to understand what Herr Schnell is
proposing to destroy "the last socialistic company", as he wrote in his
own words,

And you agree with him, except you want to defend it? You're both
fools. The Berlin S-Bahn is not "a socialist company".

You may have noted that I use this "socialistic [sic] company" only
in quotes, first in order to make clear that I quote Herr Schnell, and
secondly in order to make clear that I do not use such a label.



Cheers,
L.W.

On 02/01/2012 19:46, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote in
:

Where were the people who worked on the Berlin S-Bahn in West Berlin
from during the city's partition?

Yes they were West Berlin locals. They had a reputation of being all
communists, but that was not true. The communist party membership was
somewhat higher among them though. (Where "communist party" stands for
the "Sozialistische Einheitspartei Westberlin" or SEW, the West Berlin
section of East Germany's SED. The West German communist party DKP did
not exist on West Berlin soil.)

What were fares like on the S-Bahn in West Berlin during the city's
division? I wonder how that compares with fares for the same service in
East Berlin?

Where, BTW, was border control carried out on the S-Bahn? Did
Grenztruppen der DDR board the train at any point or did one have to
exit at Friedrichstrasse to go through border control?

I also know that at least one line on the West Berlin U-Bahn went via a
part of East German territory. Was there not a transfer point between
two West Berlin lines in East German territory, however? IIRC it was
Alexanderplatz. You could transfer to another line there, but you could
not leave the station.

I thought that certain luxury goods were sold duty-free at
Alexanderplatz at kiosk that belonged to a East German trading company
(state-owned, of course). This really annoyed West German authorities,
and they would sometimes place Federal customs officers at stations with
the sole purpose of catching anybody carrying such goods purchased in
East Germany.

Do correct me if I am mistaken.


I understand that actual train drivers were East German,

That is true for long distance trains connecting West Berlin to West
German, but not local S-Bahn within West Berlin trains.

I would have though that DR train drivers would only be able to go as
far as the Inner German border, indeed.

Am 02.01.2012 21:24, schrieb :
I thought that certain luxury goods were sold duty-free at
Alexanderplatz at kiosk that belonged to a East German trading company
(state-owned, of course). This really annoyed West German authorities,
and they would sometimes place Federal customs officers at stations with
the sole purpose of catching anybody carrying such goods purchased in
East Germany.

In 1987, the West German and West Berlin media (and authorities)
waged a big campaign against the GDR to force them to close the last
hole in the wall, and to act as a auxiliary police force of the West
Berlin cops.

People who landed at the Schönefeld airport and who had a transit
visa for the GDR could enter West Berlin via the Friedrichstraße
checkpoint. The West Berlin police did not want to establish their own
immigration control. They wanted the GDR border police to do it for
them. The Wessies detested the free travel across the Berlin wall...


L.W.