In message , at 21:08:37 on Fri, 20 Jan
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
Off-hand I can only think of three toll routes in the UK, plus the
London Congestion Zone (which I think doesn't have a transponder).

I realise toll routes are much more common in the USA.

I didn't realize there were no transponders. It's enforced entirely
with photographs of license plates?

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates
(I don't think cars without transponders are impaled on spikes).

There's also some enforcement by foot patrols, although I've never been
sure how widespread they are. That's because you have to pay by the day
once inside, which can't be enforced solely by entry cameras on the
periphery.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry writes:
(I don't think cars without transponders are impaled on spikes).

It would block traffic. Can't have that!

-Miles

--
Is it true that nothing can be known? If so how do we know this? -Woody Allen

Roland Perry wrote:
at 21:08:37 on Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:

Off-hand I can only think of three toll routes in the UK, plus the
London Congestion Zone (which I think doesn't have a transponder).

I realise toll routes are much more common in the USA.

I didn't realize there were no transponders. It's enforced entirely
with photographs of license plates?

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates

No one enforces toll collection with photographs of license plates as
the primary system of enforcement. It supplements transponders.

(I don't think cars without transponders are impaled on spikes).

Hah! I like spikes to protect grade crossings.

There's also some enforcement by foot patrols, although I've never been
sure how widespread they are. That's because you have to pay by the day
once inside, which can't be enforced solely by entry cameras on the
periphery.

Thanks.

In message , at 06:13:10 on Sat, 21 Jan
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
I didn't realize there were no transponders. It's enforced entirely
with photographs of license plates?

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates

No one enforces toll collection with photographs of license plates as
the primary system of enforcement. It supplements transponders.

We may have a problem with the word "enforce". While it's true that
transponders are the primary means of collecting [US highway] tolls,
supplemented in many cases by a cash-lane, what the cameras are doing is
enforcing a regime where people need a transponder (or to use the
cash-lane).

In the UK we talk about "Law Enforcement" to mean the way in which
people like the police ensure people obey the law by various means, but
primarily by the pursuit of offenders.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
at 06:13:10 on Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:

I didn't realize there were no transponders. It's enforced entirely
with photographs of license plates?

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates

No one enforces toll collection with photographs of license plates as
the primary system of enforcement. It supplements transponders.

We may have a problem with the word "enforce". While it's true that
transponders are the primary means of collecting [US highway] tolls,
supplemented in many cases by a cash-lane, what the cameras are doing is
enforcing a regime where people need a transponder (or to use the
cash-lane).

Not relying on transponders at all is more a sophisticated system, sure,
as the vehicle owner doesn't have to obtain any additional equipment in
advance.

I cannot wait for the day when everybody pays using DNA as identification.

In the UK we talk about "Law Enforcement" to mean the way in which
people like the police ensure people obey the law by various means, but
primarily by the pursuit of offenders.

It's rather Big Brother-ish, isn't it. There's no privacy and it's
gotten easier and easier to track the movements of everyone. The loss
of privacy hasn't resulted in the prevention of crime, although it
can aid in finding perpetrators after the fact when it's too late.

Here in America, the cops are quite capable of capturing the dumbest
criminals, the ones who record their violent assaults (even murders
at times) then post them to social media.

In message , at 15:29:00 on Sat, 21 Jan
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
I cannot wait for the day when everybody pays using DNA as identification.

Tatoos on your forehead, perhaps.

In the UK we talk about "Law Enforcement" to mean the way in which
people like the police ensure people obey the law by various means, but
primarily by the pursuit of offenders.

It's rather Big Brother-ish, isn't it. There's no privacy

Unless you pay cash, but that doesn't turn off the ANPR cameras.

and it's gotten easier and easier to track the movements of everyone.
The loss of privacy hasn't resulted in the prevention of crime,

It's difficult to be certain, because what might the crime rate have
grown to, without today's measures?

although it can aid in finding perpetrators after the fact when it's
too late.

It's supposed to be a deterrent. Although sending someone a $100 bill
for not stopping at a toll booth isn't necessarily "too late".
--
Roland Perry

On 21-Jan-12 09:29, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In the UK we talk about "Law Enforcement" to mean the way in which
people like the police ensure people obey the law by various means, but
primarily by the pursuit of offenders.

It's rather Big Brother-ish, isn't it. There's no privacy and it's
gotten easier and easier to track the movements of everyone. The loss
of privacy hasn't resulted in the prevention of crime, although it
can aid in finding perpetrators after the fact when it's too late.

That's all LEOs can do in the majority of case: investigate crimes after
they occur and, where possible, pursue the offenders. They very, very
rarely stop crimes in progress, with the notable exception of speeding
tickets.

This assumes people will not commit crimes if they believe they will get
caught. However, that is not necessarily true; most criminals believe
they won't get caught, and some criminals (particularly those with drug
or alcohol problems) simply don't care or even _want_ to be caught.

Here in America, the cops are quite capable of capturing the dumbest
criminals, the ones who record their violent assaults (even murders
at times) then post them to social media.

The solve rate is pretty bad, and the conviction rate is even worse.
And that's for violent crimes that get the most funding and attention;
for non-violent crimes, the cops are rarely even _aware_ of the crime,
and if one is reported, often all they do is file a report and move on.
This just encourages criminality, which eventually escalates into
violent crime, so it's a vicious cycle.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

On 21-Jan-12 09:29, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In the UK we talk about "Law Enforcement" to mean the way in which
people like the police ensure people obey the law by various means, but
primarily by the pursuit of offenders.

It's rather Big Brother-ish, isn't it. There's no privacy and it's
gotten easier and easier to track the movements of everyone. The loss
of privacy hasn't resulted in the prevention of crime, although it
can aid in finding perpetrators after the fact when it's too late.

Here in America, the cops are quite capable of capturing the dumbest
criminals, the ones who record their violent assaults (even murders
at times) then post them to social media.

For The Onion's take on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ380SHZvYU

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates

No one enforces toll collection with photographs of license plates as
the primary system of enforcement. It supplements transponders.

We may have a problem with the word "enforce". While it's true that
transponders are the primary means of collecting [US highway] tolls,
supplemented in many cases by a cash-lane, what the cameras are doing is
enforcing a regime where people need a transponder (or to use the
cash-lane).

In some areas yes, in others, no. In Florida and Texas, and on the
407 and A25 in Canada, there is no cash lane. If you don't have a
transponder, they photo your plate and send you a bill. That's not
a violation unless, of course, you don't pay the bill.

In California, SR 91 has tolled express lanes which you can only use
if you have a Fastrak transponder, and driving on them without a
transponder is a violation. The regular lanes of the same road are
free.

R's,
John

On 21-Jan-12 00:13, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
at 21:08:37 on Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:

Off-hand I can only think of three toll routes in the UK, plus the
London Congestion Zone (which I think doesn't have a transponder).

I realise toll routes are much more common in the USA.

I didn't realize there were no transponders. It's enforced entirely
with photographs of license plates?

Even toll roads in the USA are enforced by photographs of licence plates

No one enforces toll collection with photographs of license plates as
the primary system of enforcement. It supplements transponders.

That depends on what you mean by "primary". CTRMA (Austin, TX) and NTTA
(Dallas/Ft Worth, TX) give discounts for using a transponder, but those
without are simply billed by mail at the cash rate. As long as the bill
is paid on time, there are no fines.

(I don't think cars without transponders are impaled on spikes).

Hah! I like spikes to protect grade crossings.

So an errant driver would be brought to a halt on top of the tracks,
directly in the path of an approaching train, rather than (as most do
today) make it across safely?

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking