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Old October 20th 11, 03:35 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG

Hi there.
Coming up to Travelcard renewal time and this year since my journey has pretty neatly settled down to zone 3 south London to Canary Wharf, via Crystal Palace and Canada Water, I don't think I need Zone 1 as it's only about 1 week a month that I have to travel that way and only on the inbound journey..
Is it going to be cheaper to drop Zone 1 and pay the difference via Oyster PAYG 1 week a month for only the inbound journey's?
Many thanks,
Martin J

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Old October 20th 11, 04:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG


On Oct 20, 4:35 pm, martin j wrote:
Hi there.
Coming up to Travelcard renewal time and this year since my journey
has pretty neatly settled down to zone 3 south London to Canary Wharf,
via Crystal Palace and Canada Water, I don't think I need Zone 1 as it's
only about 1 week a month that I have to travel that way and only on the
inbound journey.
Is it going to be cheaper to drop Zone 1 and pay the difference via Oyster
PAYG 1 week a month for only the inbound journey's?


Assuming you're talking about an *annual* Travelcard...

An annual zones 1-3 is GBP 1,288
An annual zones 2&3 is GBP 832

So a difference of GBP 456.

How much a zone 1 single costs depends on whether it's at the TfL rate
(Tube, DLR, some NR journeys) or at the NR rate - you can see which rate
applies to which lines he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/national-rail-map.pdf

Travelling from say Crystal Palace to London Bridge directly, you'd pay the
NR rate which is currently GBP2.00 peak, or GBP1.50 off-peak. The TfL rate
is GBP1.90 both peak and off-peak.

So, *assuming* you'd be paying the NR rate, that'd be GBP10 for your
one-week-a-month journey - so it all depends on how many weeks (you think)
you'd be doing that in the coming year, if say it was 48 weeks then that's
GBP480 which is more than the difference of GBP456, if however it's only 35
weeks (GBP350) then that's a different matter.

The other factor to bear in mind is that the PAYG fares (both TfL and NR
rate) will rise in the January fares change - for a zone 1 journey, the NR
rate will rise to GBP2.20 peak / GBP1.60 off-peak, the TfL rate will rise to
GBP2.00 both peak and off-peak [1].

The last thing to consider is how many forays into zone 1 you (might) make
for leisure purposes, and whether that might tip the balance.

The calculus is different for weekly and monthly seasons when compared to
annuals - the 12 'free' weeks you get (pay for 40 weeks, get 52) does
rather slide the scale in favour of annuals. If however you were buying
monthlies, then it'd clearly be better value to buy a zones 2&3 monthly (at
GBP79.90) and pay the GBP10-a-month extra using PAYG compared to buying a
zones 1-3 monthly (at GBP123.70).

-----
[1] See the fares table on page 10:
http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/MD886%20January%202012%20fares%20revision%20PDF.pd f

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Old October 20th 11, 06:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG

"Mizter T" wrote in
:


On Oct 20, 4:35 pm, martin j wrote:
Hi there.
Coming up to Travelcard renewal time and this year since my journey
has pretty neatly settled down to zone 3 south London to Canary
Wharf, via Crystal Palace and Canada Water, I don't think I need Zone
1 as it's only about 1 week a month that I have to travel that way
and only on the inbound journey.
Is it going to be cheaper to drop Zone 1 and pay the difference via
Oyster PAYG 1 week a month for only the inbound journey's?


Assuming you're talking about an *annual* Travelcard...

An annual zones 1-3 is GBP 1,288
An annual zones 2&3 is GBP 832

So a difference of GBP 456.

How much a zone 1 single costs depends on whether it's at the TfL rate
(Tube, DLR, some NR journeys) or at the NR rate - you can see which
rate applies to which lines he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/national-rail-map.pdf

Travelling from say Crystal Palace to London Bridge directly, you'd
pay the NR rate which is currently GBP2.00 peak, or GBP1.50 off-peak.
The TfL rate is GBP1.90 both peak and off-peak.


The annual travelcard is also a Network Gold Card, which you can now
register on your Oyster card to get 1/3 off off-peak fares. So the off-
peak fares are currently 1.00 for NR and 1.25 for Tfl, once you have
registered your Gold Card (this may happen automatically if your annual
season is issued on Oyster).

(Off-peak for these purposes is usually journies starting before 06.30,
09.30 to 16.00 and after 19.00. These times are different from the
discounts "after 10:00" that apply to a paper tickets issued with a Gold
Card.)


So, *assuming* you'd be paying the NR rate, that'd be GBP10 for your
one-week-a-month journey - so it all depends on how many weeks (you
think) you'd be doing that in the coming year, if say it was 48 weeks
then that's GBP480 which is more than the difference of GBP456, if
however it's only 35 weeks (GBP350) then that's a different matter.

The other factor to bear in mind is that the PAYG fares (both TfL and
NR rate) will rise in the January fares change - for a zone 1 journey,
the NR rate will rise to GBP2.20 peak / GBP1.60 off-peak, the TfL rate
will rise to GBP2.00 both peak and off-peak [1].

The last thing to consider is how many forays into zone 1 you (might)
make for leisure purposes, and whether that might tip the balance.

The calculus is different for weekly and monthly seasons when compared
to annuals - the 12 'free' weeks you get (pay for 40 weeks, get 52)
does rather slide the scale in favour of annuals. If however you were
buying monthlies, then it'd clearly be better value to buy a zones 2&3
monthly (at GBP79.90) and pay the GBP10-a-month extra using PAYG
compared to buying a zones 1-3 monthly (at GBP123.70).

-----
[1] See the fares table on page 10:
http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/defau...anuary%202012%

20
fares%20revision%20PDF.pdf



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Old October 20th 11, 07:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG

martin j wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Hi there.
Coming up to Travelcard renewal time and this year since my journey
has pretty neatly settled down to zone 3 south London to Canary Wharf,
via Crystal Palace and Canada Water, I don't think I need Zone 1 as
it's only about 1 week a month that I have to travel that way and only
on the inbound journey. Is it going to be cheaper to drop Zone 1 and
pay the difference via Oyster PAYG 1 week a month for only the inbound
journey's? Many thanks,
Martin J


The answer is going to be "it all depends..."

The relevant fares are

Crystal Palace to Canary Wharf not via Zone 1
Peak: 1.40
Off-Peak: 1.30

Crystal Palace to Canary Wharf via Zone 1
Peak: 4.10
Off-Peak: 3.20

Gipsy Hill [National Rail] to Canary Wharf not via Zone 1
Peak: 1.90
Off-Peak: 1.50
(route validation required; default is via Zone 1)

Gipsy Hill [National Rail] to Canary Wharf via Zone 1
Peak: 4.10
Off-Peak: 3.20

Annual Z1-3 1,288
Annual Z2-3 832

Let's make the following assumptions:

Your journey starts between 06:30 and 09:30 in the morning and 16:00 and
19:00 in the evening (i.e. is "Peak" both ways)

It is from a Zone 3 National Rail station (e.g. Gipsy Hill) (Crystal
Palace itself is London Overground so a cheaper fare applies via Canada
Water)

You work for 5 days a week, 48 weeks per year (i.e. ignoring Bank
Holidays)

For 12 weeks you travel outwards via Zone 1, making a through journey
(if your reason for going via Zone 1 is to break your journey in Zone 1
you will have to pay two single fares).

The January fares increase will be ignored.

So the totals a

Pay-as-you-go

2 x 5 x 36 x 1.90 = 684
1 x 5 x 12 x 1.90 = 114
1 x 5 x 12 x 4.10 = 246
Total 1044

Annual Z2-3 plus PAYG
Annual season = 832
1 x 5 x 12 x 2.00 = 120
Total 952

Annual Z1-3 1288

So the best option looks like a Z2-3 annual season plus PAYG. Note that
if you actually started your journey at Crystal Palace PAYG throughout
would be cheaper, but you would lose the other benefits of a season
ticket.

David











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Old October 20th 11, 07:28 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG

Thanks very much to both of you.
Since it'll be the Tfl rate and mostly starting by 06:15, then I think I'll try the zone 2 and 3 only and pay the diff as PAYG Oyster and see how things even out this year,


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Old October 20th 11, 08:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Zones 1, 2 and 3 or just 2 and 3 and PAYG

martin j wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Thanks very much to both of you.
Since it'll be the Tfl rate and mostly starting by 06:15, then I think
I'll try the zone 2 and 3 only and pay the diff as PAYG Oyster and see
how things even out this year,


Actually there is something we all missed first time round - a Zone 1
excess PAYG on any Oyster travelcard including Zone 2 (but excluding Zone
1) is always at the Tfl rate, even it includes both TfL and NR - see the
bottom of

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx

(or at least I think it applies in this case, despite the fact you are
travelling "through" zone 1 and not "into" it)

David


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