I would be very surprised to hear of any European country where retail
prices for non-trade customers are quoted net of tax. ...

That's because VAT is standard across a country. In the US there are thousands
of taxing districts in every state, each with it's own adder to the base rate.

That's not really the case. Some states have lots of tax districts,
e.g. here in New York where every county and many cities set their
own sales tax rate. But some states like Vermont have a single rate
for the whole state, and some like New Hampshire and Delaware have no
sales tax at all. For prices in stores, everything in the store is taxed
at the same rate, but those prices are quoted net of tax, too.

My understanding is that most prices in the US are quoted net of tax
for purely political reasons, that the tax sceptics in the legislature
want everyone to be aware of what the tax rate is, and how much the
state is collecting.

We will leave as an exercise for the student why prices for gasoline
are invariably quoted gross, with all taxes included.

R's,
John

On 22-Jan-12 20:51, John Levine wrote:
I would be very surprised to hear of any European country where retail
prices for non-trade customers are quoted net of tax. ...

That's because VAT is standard across a country. In the US there are thousands
of taxing districts in every state, each with it's own adder to the base rate.

That's not really the case. Some states have lots of tax districts,
e.g. here in New York where every county and many cities set their
own sales tax rate. But some states like Vermont have a single rate
for the whole state, and some like New Hampshire and Delaware have no
sales tax at all. For prices in stores, everything in the store is taxed
at the same rate, but those prices are quoted net of tax, too.

Not true; some items are fully or partially tax-exempt, so the rate can
vary even within a single store. For instance, my state taxes prepared
food but not unprepared food, which are both found in grocery stores,
and automobiles are exempt from local tax but not state tax, while other
items sold at car dealerships are not exempt from either.

Many states claim that residents of their state have to pay sales tax on
products shipped by a seller in another state, whereas AFAIK no state
taxes products shipped to a buyer another state. If the seller is in
the same state as the buyer, the buyer's rate applies to shipped orders,
not the seller's rate.

And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

Also, some buyers do not have to pay sales tax at all, and some buyers
can have their sales tax refunded.

My understanding is that most prices in the US are quoted net of tax
for purely political reasons, that the tax sceptics in the legislature
want everyone to be aware of what the tax rate is, and how much the
state is collecting.

That's one theory.

We will leave as an exercise for the student why prices for gasoline
are invariably quoted gross, with all taxes included.

Excise taxes, eg. on motor fuels, are usually included in the price, but
sales taxes are not. Most states exempt products from sales tax if
subject to a specific excise tax, but some don't.

In short, it's a complete mess.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Stephen Sprunk wrote:

And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

You misstated that. State sales taxes are collected on in-state sales;
there is no federal jurisdiction to impose a moratorium. Use taxes are
levied on interstate sales. These are not collected by the merchant,
but levied directly on the buyer. There's really no federal issue at all,
unless Congress imposes a national sales tax.

On 23-Jan-12 08:06, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

You misstated that. State sales taxes are collected on in-state sales;
there is no federal jurisdiction to impose a moratorium. Use taxes are
levied on interstate sales.

You well know that "sales tax" is almost always an abbreviation of
"sales and use tax", and the fact we have two different terms is a relic
of politicians playing games to get around the obvious
unconstitutionality of what they really wanted to do.

Congress's a moratorium was on the collection of "use tax" on internet
purchases, which is also of questionable constitutionality, but since
the vast majority of customers never paid it anyway, nobody seems to care.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Stephen Sprunk wrote:
On 23-Jan-12 08:06, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:

And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

You misstated that. State sales taxes are collected on in-state sales;
there is no federal jurisdiction to impose a moratorium. Use taxes are
levied on interstate sales.

You well know that "sales tax" is almost always an abbreviation of
"sales and use tax", and the fact we have two different terms is a relic
of politicians playing games to get around the obvious
unconstitutionality of what they really wanted to do.

You still miss the point as to who the burden of paying and collecting
the tax falls on: The seller in case of in-state sales, and the buyer
in case of out-of-state sales. The state lacks jurisdiction on out of
state sellers due to the federal constitution.

Because you miss this point, you miss the obvious that there is no
federal moratorium in fact as collection of state use taxes is in
no way a federal issue.

Congress's a moratorium was on the collection of "use tax" on internet
purchases, which is also of questionable constitutionality, but since
the vast majority of customers never paid it anyway, nobody seems to care.

It's not of questionable constitutionality. There's no question about
the unconstitutional nature of the federal government imposing any
method of state tax collection.

in case of out-of-state sales. The state lacks jurisdiction on out of
state sellers due to the federal constitution.

Hmmn. I gather you haven't read Quill v. North Dakota. Because that's
not what it says.

R's,
John

John Levine wrote:

in case of out-of-state sales. The state lacks jurisdiction on out of
state sellers due to the federal constitution.

Hmmn. I gather you haven't read Quill v. North Dakota. Because that's
not what it says.

Sigh. Quill gives me a headache.

Bellas Hess was the 1967 case that seemed to put make a bright line
distinction on whether the business had adequate nexus by physical presence
in the state for the state to impose its taxation regime upon it.

John Paul Stevens wrote the opinion for the Court. The North Dakota
Supreme Court observed a number of federal cases in which federal courts
veered away from Bellas Hess and thought that the state could assert
nexus via other factors than physical presence. In this case, state
law recognized three advertising campaigns by mail per year as minimum
to assert nexus.

Stevens wrote that the court generally agreed with the state supreme
court but reversed it regardless because it wanted to leave the Bellas
Hess opinion intact.

Also, the Due Process clause applies in a confusing way.

So not exactly, John.

North Dakota found a constitutional way to force the seller to collect
a state tax without infringing on interstate commerce.

"Adam H. Kerman" wrote:

There's really no federal issue at all,
unless Congress imposes a national sales tax.

The federal moratorium pertained to new internet taxes - not existing sales
taxes. I haven't looked to see if expired or is still in force.

On 22-Jan-12 20:51, John Levine wrote:
I would be very surprised to hear of any European country where retail
prices for non-trade customers are quoted net of tax. ...

That's because VAT is standard across a country. In the US there are thousands
of taxing districts in every state, each with it's own adder to the base rate.

That's not really the case. Some states have lots of tax districts,
e.g. here in New York where every county and many cities set their
own sales tax rate. But some states like Vermont have a single rate
for the whole state, and some like New Hampshire and Delaware have no
sales tax at all. For prices in stores, everything in the store is taxed
at the same rate, but those prices are quoted net of tax, too.

Not true; some items are fully or partially tax-exempt, so the rate can
vary even within a single store. For instance, my state taxes prepared
food but not unprepared food, which are both found in grocery stores,
and automobiles are exempt from local tax but not state tax, while other
items sold at car dealerships are not exempt from either.

Many states claim that residents of their state have to pay sales tax on
products shipped by a seller in another state, whereas AFAIK no state
taxes products shipped to a buyer another state. If the seller is in
the same state as the buyer, the buyer's rate applies to shipped orders,
not the seller's rate.

And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

Also, some buyers do not have to pay sales tax at all, and some buyers
can have their sales tax refunded.

My understanding is that most prices in the US are quoted net of tax
for purely political reasons, that the tax sceptics in the legislature
want everyone to be aware of what the tax rate is, and how much the
state is collecting.

That's one theory.

We will leave as an exercise for the student why prices for gasoline
are invariably quoted gross, with all taxes included.

Excise taxes, eg. on motor fuels, are usually included in the price, but
sales taxes are not. Most states exempt products from sales tax if
subject to a specific excise tax, but some don't.

In short, it's a complete mess.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Stephen Sprunk wrote:
John Levine wrote:

Many states claim that residents of their state have to pay sales tax on
products shipped by a seller in another state, whereas AFAIK no state
taxes products shipped to a buyer another state.

You confuse "sales tax" and "use tax". It violates the interstate commerce
clause of the federal constitution for one state to impose a sales tax on
a seller in another state. They get around it by imposing a use tax on a
buyer of a good from outside the state.

If the seller is in the same state as the buyer, the buyer's rate applies
to shipped orders, not the seller's rate.

You are making an inapplicable universal statement. What sales tax rate
applies varies from state to state.

And then there's Congress's Internet sales tax moratorium, so the same
product ordered by the same buyer from the same seller may by taxed if
the order was by phone or mail but not if online.

Again you are confusing sales taxes with use taxes.

We will leave as an exercise for the student why prices for gasoline
are invariably quoted gross, with all taxes included.

Excise taxes, eg. on motor fuels, are usually included in the price, but
sales taxes are not. Most states exempt products from sales tax if
subject to a specific excise tax, but some don't.

John Levine offered an observation of the tradition of stating a price
inclusive of all taxes on motor fuel sales. As sales taxes are a type of
excise tax, you failed to offer an explanation as to why the convention
exists.

My state imposes sales taxes and motor fuel excise taxes on motor fuel
sales. Is my state in the majority or minority for imposing multiple
excise taxes on motor fuel sales? I have no idea for I haven't looked
it up. You probably didn't either.