wrote:
On 24/02/2012 23:00, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
wrote:
On 24/02/2012 21:20, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Stephen wrote:
On 24-Feb-12 09:01, d wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:13:13 -0700 Robert wrote:
wrote:

He must be one of those bloody annoying people who insist on paying
for a 2.50 sandwich with a credit card and causing a huge queue of
****ed off hungry customers behind him.

That may have been true 10 years ago. Current terminals handle credit
card transactions far faster than cash and in most cases, don't even
require a signature if the value is under a certain threshold.

Hand cash over - walk out. If you can do that faster with a credit
card then I'd be interesting in hearing your technique.

In the US (and Canada, IIRC), sales tax is not included in the posted
price, so a customer doesn't know how much cash to hand over until the
total is computed by the cash register. Then, either the customer has
to count out the correct payment or the cashier has to count out the
correct change for a large bill.

Swiping a card is faster--much faster if the transaction total is under
the merchant's "floor", i.e. doesn't require a signature/PIN.

What credit card transaction requires a PIN? Those are strictly for
debit card transactions.

I regularly used my PIN on credit card transactions here in London.

I have no idea if a PIN would be required if you swiped it at a
US retail terminal.

No, UK credit cards also have a magnetic stripe on the back, so they can
be swiped through a US retail terminal. You just have to sign on the
transaction, rather than use your PIN.

That's interesting. In the UK, do you use the PIN both when swiping and
using it as a proximity card?

On 25/02/2012 16:06, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
wrote:
On 24/02/2012 23:00, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
wrote:
On 24/02/2012 21:20, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Stephen wrote:
On 24-Feb-12 09:01, d wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 07:13:13 -0700 Robert wrote:
d wrote:

He must be one of those bloody annoying people who insist on paying
for a 2.50 sandwich with a credit card and causing a huge queue of
****ed off hungry customers behind him.

That may have been true 10 years ago. Current terminals handle credit
card transactions far faster than cash and in most cases, don't even
require a signature if the value is under a certain threshold.

Hand cash over - walk out. If you can do that faster with a credit
card then I'd be interesting in hearing your technique.

In the US (and Canada, IIRC), sales tax is not included in the posted
price, so a customer doesn't know how much cash to hand over until the
total is computed by the cash register. Then, either the customer has
to count out the correct payment or the cashier has to count out the
correct change for a large bill.

Swiping a card is faster--much faster if the transaction total is under
the merchant's "floor", i.e. doesn't require a signature/PIN.

What credit card transaction requires a PIN? Those are strictly for
debit card transactions.

I regularly used my PIN on credit card transactions here in London.

I have no idea if a PIN would be required if you swiped it at a
US retail terminal.

No, UK credit cards also have a magnetic stripe on the back, so they can
be swiped through a US retail terminal. You just have to sign on the
transaction, rather than use your PIN.

That's interesting. In the UK, do you use the PIN both when swiping and
using it as a proximity card?

UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

No, I do not have to use the PIN when swiping it. Most likely, I then
will just have to sign for something.

BTW, some years back when I visited the Newark City Subway, now known as
Newark Light Rail, I used my credit card to purchase tickets. My credit
card did not have a chip and no signing was required to complete the
transaction.

My bank does not (yet) have proximity cards, so I would not think so.
But I strongly doubt that anything is required since there purpose is to
speed along sales. Plus, as I read here, transactions are limited to but
a few dollars/pounds at most, depending on where you are.

A friend of mine in New York City has a proximity card and he used it
to enter the Subway at Grand Central - 42nd Street. IIRC, it was a pilot
programme. Is that option still there or at other stations on that system?

In message , at 16:22:09 on Sat, 25
Feb 2012, " remarked:

UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

They are "converging things". I don't know of any post-payment proximity
cards that aren't also conventional credit cards. But only a few
conventional credit cards have the proximity technology.
--
Roland Perry

On 25/02/2012 16:27, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:22:09 on Sat, 25
Feb 2012, " remarked:

UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

They are "converging things". I don't know of any post-payment proximity
cards that aren't also conventional credit cards. But only a few
conventional credit cards have the proximity technology.

Barclays Bank, IIRC.

In message , at 19:02:04 on Sat, 25
Feb 2012, " remarked:
UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

They are "converging things". I don't know of any post-payment proximity
cards that aren't also conventional credit cards. But only a few
conventional credit cards have the proximity technology.

Barclays Bank, IIRC.

Barclaycards, which were at one time all VISA, but I have a Barclay
Mastercard, just to prove it's possible.
--
Roland Perry

On 25/02/2012 21:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:02:04 on Sat, 25
Feb 2012, " remarked:
UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

They are "converging things". I don't know of any post-payment proximity
cards that aren't also conventional credit cards. But only a few
conventional credit cards have the proximity technology.

Barclays Bank, IIRC.

Barclaycards, which were at one time all VISA, but I have a Barclay
Mastercard, just to prove it's possible.

I was referring to the fact that Barclays Bank apparently offers the
proximity service with its card.

In message , at 00:22:12 on Sun, 26
Feb 2012, " remarked:
UK credit cards and proximity cards are different things.

They are "converging things". I don't know of any post-payment proximity
cards that aren't also conventional credit cards. But only a few
conventional credit cards have the proximity technology.

Barclays Bank, IIRC.

Barclaycards, which were at one time all VISA, but I have a Barclay
Mastercard, just to prove it's possible.

I was referring to the fact that Barclays Bank apparently offers the
proximity service with its card.

It is well known to do so. But there are others. This news story
clarifies many of the myths expressed in this thread:

http://www.mbna.co.uk/about-us/news-...ches-the-uk-s-
first-american-express-branded-contactless-credit-cards/
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:06:24 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
No, UK credit cards also have a magnetic stripe on the back, so they can
be swiped through a US retail terminal. You just have to sign on the
transaction, rather than use your PIN.

That's interesting. In the UK, do you use the PIN both when swiping

Almost no-one swipes cards any more, they are fitted into a chip reader.

In both cases you'd need a PIN, unless it's one of those intangible
purchases like a parking garage, where they seem to have decided that
the cost of doing PIN verification is greater than the potential fraud
from skimmed cards (and the product has a zero marginal costs anyway).

and using it as a proximity card?

I'm told about 1:10 proximity card transactions require a PIN. Whether
it's random, or by profiling the retailer/customer, I doubt is in the
public domain.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:24:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 16:06:24 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, Adam H. Kerman remarked:
No, UK credit cards also have a magnetic stripe on the back, so they can
be swiped through a US retail terminal. You just have to sign on the
transaction, rather than use your PIN.

That's interesting. In the UK, do you use the PIN both when swiping

Almost no-one swipes cards any more, they are fitted into a chip reader.

In both cases you'd need a PIN, unless it's one of those intangible
purchases like a parking garage, where they seem to have decided that
the cost of doing PIN verification is greater than the potential fraud
from skimmed cards (and the product has a zero marginal costs anyway).

and using it as a proximity card?

I'm told about 1:10 proximity card transactions require a PIN. Whether
it's random, or by profiling the retailer/customer, I doubt is in the
public domain.

http://conversation.which.co.uk/mone...tactless-card/
refers to a PIN being used for any transaction over 15 UKP or any
taking the running daily total over 50 UKP.

In message , at 21:47:58 on
Sat, 25 Feb 2012, Charles Ellson remarked:
I'm told about 1:10 proximity card transactions require a PIN. Whether
it's random, or by profiling the retailer/customer, I doubt is in the
public domain.

http://conversation.which.co.uk/mone...tactless-card/
refers to a PIN being used for any transaction over 15 UKP or any
taking the running daily total over 50 UKP.

£50 sounds a lot like "the average amount you'll run up before meeting a
random PIN check". Do any of the banks publish the algorithm?
--
Roland Perry