Ross schrieb:


Yeah, but WienerLinien carefully forget to mention that they announce
most of the routes on which they'll be checking tickets in advance, so
it's really only the stupid who get caught.

Do you really think, that most fare dodgers follow the announcements?
I don't think so.
Transport is secondary demand, and underinvolvement of the users is
typical. That's true for legal users, and no different for illegal users.
Since you work on the railroads, you might not sense the low importance
given to it by most users ... as long as everything works.


The actual level of "black riding", fare evasion, is almost certainly
higher than they choose to acknowledge.

The number /always/ mentions the fare dodgers, who get caught. The
percentage, who don't get caught, will be a lot higher on British buses
than on Wiener Linien.


If they were serious about fare evasion, they wouldn't announce any of
their checks - and they'd do a heck of a lot more of them.

They should do some more, but as a rule of thumb, bringing fare dodging
under 2% is unprofitable.


Hans-Joachim

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 22:55:22 +0000 (UTC) [UTC], Hans-Joachim Zierke
wrote:
Ross schrieb:

Yeah, but WienerLinien carefully forget to mention that they announce
most of the routes on which they'll be checking tickets in advance, so
it's really only the stupid who get caught.

Do you really think, that most fare dodgers follow the announcements?

I'm aware from professional experience that fare evaders are very
quick to latch onto anything which helps them evade payment of fares.

A quick check of a website on the nice snazzy iPhone or similar that
many people now have is rather easy, y'know.


I don't think so.

Mileage varies.


[...]
Since you work on the railroads, you might not sense the low importance
given to it by most users ... as long as everything works.

Most users are not fare evaders. Please don't assume that fare evaders
attach importance to the same things as "most users".


The actual level of "black riding", fare evasion, is almost certainly
higher than they choose to acknowledge.

The number /always/ mentions the fare dodgers, who get caught.

Meaningless, in context.


The
percentage, who don't get caught, will be a lot higher on British buses
than on Wiener Linien.

Care to provide some evidence for that claim?

Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.


If they were serious about fare evasion, they wouldn't announce any of
their checks - and they'd do a heck of a lot more of them.

They should do some more, but as a rule of thumb, bringing fare dodging
under 2% is unprofitable.

I'm well aware of that. I'm also, based on my own professional
instincts and observations, aware that fare evasion in Wien is higher
than the low percentage they claim it to be.

--
Ross

Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else
- unless I make it clear that I am...

Ross schrieb:


Most users are not fare evaders. Please don't assume that fare evaders
attach importance to the same things as "most users".

Fare evaders are the same as most users. If most users don't see a ticket
inspection for years, you'll have almost 50% evaders.

As proven, accidently, on Boppard-Emmelshausen.

(Boppard-Emmelshausen is "steep grade", and thus, regulations required
the guard to be in the cab. Clever managers without knowledge of railway
regulations never sent a ticket inspector, because there was a guard...)


Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.


Hans-Joachim

On 17/03/2012 01:48, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Ross schrieb:

Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.

How? Drivers tend to notice people walking past them without paying.

Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In article ,
lid (Arthur Figgis) wrote:

On 17/03/2012 01:48, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Ross schrieb:

Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.

How? Drivers tend to notice people walking past them without paying.

Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

Except the ex-London ones now spread out across the country.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 06:13:55
on Sat, 17 Mar 2012, remarked:
Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

Except the ex-London ones now spread out across the country.

It's still a drop in the ocean. Many provincial bendy buses have one of
the back doors "missing" as well, and are frequently used on routes for
students - where almost all the users will have season tickets.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
06:13:55 on Sat, 17 Mar 2012, remarked:
Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

Except the ex-London ones now spread out across the country.

It's still a drop in the ocean. Many provincial bendy buses have one
of the back doors "missing" as well, and are frequently used on
routes for students - where almost all the users will have season
tickets.

Not that I saw in Gateshead last weekend. Pretty well as in London except
for the repaint.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mar 17, 9:16*am, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 17/03/2012 01:48, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Ross schrieb:
Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.

How? Drivers tend to notice people walking past them without paying.

Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

It's also very rare for someone to try and board the rear (exit) door
of a London bus - perhaps surprisingly so, if one actually thinks
about it, but it's just not the done thing - I think Neil Williams
described it as an 'invisible force field'.

On 17/03/2012 12:14, Mizter T wrote:

On Mar 17, 9:16 am, Arthur wrote:

On 17/03/2012 01:48, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Ross schrieb:
Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.

How? Drivers tend to notice people walking past them without paying.

Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

It's also very rare for someone to try and board the rear (exit) door
of a London bus - perhaps surprisingly so, if one actually thinks
about it,

And when they do, they tend to be foreigners.

but it's just not the done thing - I think Neil Williams
described it as an 'invisible force field'.

Perhaps large numbers of potential fare dodgers get free travel anyway?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 17/03/2012 20:18, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 17/03/2012 12:14, Mizter T wrote:

On Mar 17, 9:16 am, Arthur wrote:

On 17/03/2012 01:48, Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:

Ross schrieb:
Have you actually got any idea how revenue collection is generally
handled on British buses, HaJo?
Clue: the London "pay before you board" area is not the way the rest
of the country works.

As soon as the only check is the bus driver, and there aren't any
inspectors in the buses, it's very easy to get through.

How? Drivers tend to notice people walking past them without paying.

Outside London, buses generally only have one door, by the driver.
Bendy-buses aren't very common.

It's also very rare for someone to try and board the rear (exit) door
of a London bus - perhaps surprisingly so, if one actually thinks
about it,

And when they do, they tend to be foreigners.

but it's just not the done thing - I think Neil Williams
described it as an 'invisible force field'.

Do do that on trams in Amsterdam.