On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:01:17 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:00:14 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:47:20 +0100, Jim
[wake wrote:



Having just looked at a BBC news item concerning Nissan having an
approved cab for London has reminded me of something.

What happened to the Mercedes Vito van-based cab with 4-wheel steering
that was supposed to take over in London? It doesn't seem to be very
common yet.


Probably because it is too expensive? Since launch, the purchase
price has climbed quite steeply to the point where the saving over the
Manganese Bronze LTI cab is small. Also, there are many garages all
over London that specialise in repairing and maintaining the
traditional LTI models, but few with expertise in the Mercedes-Benz.

The Nissan taxi is going to have to be better supported than the
Mercedes-Benz if it is to make a dent in LTI sales. A low purchase
price is not enough. Significantly raising the price before it was
established in the market is what may have killed off the
Mercedes-Benz.


I must admit I don't know much about taxi economics, but I'd imagine
that running costs for a vehicle that's working for many hours each
day greatly outweigh the initial purchase price. So I wonder how these
new pretenders to the throne compare with the established LT1?


My cousin operates two black cabs and has done a detailed comparison
of the LTI cab and the Mercedes-Benz.

According to him, the fuel cost of the Mercedes-Benz is lower but
every other component of running costs is higher. Servicing is very
expensive indeed; there is effectively no competition for
Mercedes-Benz servicing whereas the market for LTI servicing is
extremely competitive. The result is that Mercedes-Benz servicing
costs are around three times higher, with hourly rates for a service
technician at around £145 against £45-£50 at independent garages
servicing LTI cabs. The tyres for the Mercedes-Benz are lower profile
and cost at least double those for the LTI.

He attended the launch of the Nissan 200 cab in New York and was very
impressed, although he didn't have the opportunity to drive one. It
is a simple variant of the mass produced and very cheap Nissan 200
van. Apart from the usual taxi kit, the main difference is in the
drive shafts which are double articulated to give a turning circle of
less than 25 feet between kerbs as required by the London Carriage
Office, or whatever they call it now. It is a low maintenance vehicle
and the engine comfortably complies with the next tranche of exhaust
emission requirements. He is almost certain to buy a Nissan cab to
replace one of his LTIs.

Interesting. I wonder how they compare from the passenger's point of
view. For example, is the Nissan air-conditioned? I would imagine it
would have to be for the New York market.

Recliner wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:01:17 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:00:14 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:47:20 +0100, Jim
[wake wrote:



Having just looked at a BBC news item concerning Nissan having an
approved cab for London has reminded me of something.

What happened to the Mercedes Vito van-based cab with 4-wheel steering
that was supposed to take over in London? It doesn't seem to be very
common yet.


Probably because it is too expensive? Since launch, the purchase
price has climbed quite steeply to the point where the saving over the
Manganese Bronze LTI cab is small. Also, there are many garages all
over London that specialise in repairing and maintaining the
traditional LTI models, but few with expertise in the Mercedes-Benz.

The Nissan taxi is going to have to be better supported than the
Mercedes-Benz if it is to make a dent in LTI sales. A low purchase
price is not enough. Significantly raising the price before it was
established in the market is what may have killed off the
Mercedes-Benz.


I must admit I don't know much about taxi economics, but I'd imagine
that running costs for a vehicle that's working for many hours each
day greatly outweigh the initial purchase price. So I wonder how these
new pretenders to the throne compare with the established LT1?


My cousin operates two black cabs and has done a detailed comparison
of the LTI cab and the Mercedes-Benz.

According to him, the fuel cost of the Mercedes-Benz is lower but
every other component of running costs is higher. Servicing is very
expensive indeed; there is effectively no competition for
Mercedes-Benz servicing whereas the market for LTI servicing is
extremely competitive. The result is that Mercedes-Benz servicing
costs are around three times higher, with hourly rates for a service
technician at around £145 against £45-£50 at independent garages
servicing LTI cabs. The tyres for the Mercedes-Benz are lower profile
and cost at least double those for the LTI.

He attended the launch of the Nissan 200 cab in New York and was very
impressed, although he didn't have the opportunity to drive one. It
is a simple variant of the mass produced and very cheap Nissan 200
van. Apart from the usual taxi kit, the main difference is in the
drive shafts which are double articulated to give a turning circle of
less than 25 feet between kerbs as required by the London Carriage
Office, or whatever they call it now. It is a low maintenance vehicle
and the engine comfortably complies with the next tranche of exhaust
emission requirements. He is almost certain to buy a Nissan cab to
replace one of his LTIs.

Interesting. I wonder how they compare from the passenger's point of
view. For example, is the Nissan air-conditioned? I would imagine it
would have to be for the New York market.


All three are air conditioned.

The Mercedes-Benz is more roomy and comfortable than the LTI. The
independent rear suspension gives a smoother ride. The Nissan's ride
is likely to be choppy in the back because it uses a beam axle and
leaf springs. It may also be underpowered given that it only has a
1.5 litre diesel engine.

LTI is going through a period of change after a majority stake in the
company was bought from Manganese Bronze by Geely of China. The
traditional London taxis are now mostly manufactured in China; those
for the UK market are assembled here from Chinese parts plus the VM
diesel engine from Italy.

Geely has placed LTI under the Englon brand although the taxis are
actually made by Geely's subsidiary Shanghai LTI. Englon is also
offering the TXN which may or may not be adapted to serve as a future
London black cab.

http://www.carsuk.net/englon-txn-from-geely-the-new-london-taxi-no-chance/

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:27:16 +0100
Bruce wrote:
independent rear suspension gives a smoother ride. The Nissan's ride
is likely to be choppy in the back because it uses a beam axle and
leaf springs.

Thats high tech for the USA.

traditional London taxis are now mostly manufactured in China; those

Manufactured for who? Where are they being sold outside of the UK?

http://www.carsuk.net/englon-txn-from-geely-the-new-london-taxi-no-chance/

That is one fugly motor. The chinese might be good at manufacture but they
should really leave designing to someone else.

B2003

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:27:16 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:01:17 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:00:14 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:47:20 +0100, Jim
[wake wrote:



Having just looked at a BBC news item concerning Nissan having an
approved cab for London has reminded me of something.

What happened to the Mercedes Vito van-based cab with 4-wheel steering
that was supposed to take over in London? It doesn't seem to be very
common yet.


Probably because it is too expensive? Since launch, the purchase
price has climbed quite steeply to the point where the saving over the
Manganese Bronze LTI cab is small. Also, there are many garages all
over London that specialise in repairing and maintaining the
traditional LTI models, but few with expertise in the Mercedes-Benz.

The Nissan taxi is going to have to be better supported than the
Mercedes-Benz if it is to make a dent in LTI sales. A low purchase
price is not enough. Significantly raising the price before it was
established in the market is what may have killed off the
Mercedes-Benz.


I must admit I don't know much about taxi economics, but I'd imagine
that running costs for a vehicle that's working for many hours each
day greatly outweigh the initial purchase price. So I wonder how these
new pretenders to the throne compare with the established LT1?


My cousin operates two black cabs and has done a detailed comparison
of the LTI cab and the Mercedes-Benz.

According to him, the fuel cost of the Mercedes-Benz is lower but
every other component of running costs is higher. Servicing is very
expensive indeed; there is effectively no competition for
Mercedes-Benz servicing whereas the market for LTI servicing is
extremely competitive. The result is that Mercedes-Benz servicing
costs are around three times higher, with hourly rates for a service
technician at around £145 against £45-£50 at independent garages
servicing LTI cabs. The tyres for the Mercedes-Benz are lower profile
and cost at least double those for the LTI.

He attended the launch of the Nissan 200 cab in New York and was very
impressed, although he didn't have the opportunity to drive one. It
is a simple variant of the mass produced and very cheap Nissan 200
van. Apart from the usual taxi kit, the main difference is in the
drive shafts which are double articulated to give a turning circle of
less than 25 feet between kerbs as required by the London Carriage
Office, or whatever they call it now. It is a low maintenance vehicle
and the engine comfortably complies with the next tranche of exhaust
emission requirements. He is almost certain to buy a Nissan cab to
replace one of his LTIs.

Interesting. I wonder how they compare from the passenger's point of
view. For example, is the Nissan air-conditioned? I would imagine it
would have to be for the New York market.


All three are air conditioned.

Ah, I thought only the TX4 driver's cab was air-conditioned. I suppose
it's been quite a while since I travelled in a London taxi on a hot
day, so I've probably not been in the latest model.

On 2012\08\30 15:08, Recliner wrote:

Ah, I thought only the TX4 driver's cab was air-conditioned. I suppose
it's been quite a while since I travelled in a London taxi on a hot
day, so I've probably not been in the latest model.

New TX4s either have front and rear aircon or none. There used to also
be an intermediate TX4 with driver aircon only.

Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\08\30 15:08, Recliner wrote:

Ah, I thought only the TX4 driver's cab was air-conditioned. I suppose
it's been quite a while since I travelled in a London taxi on a hot
day, so I've probably not been in the latest model.

New TX4s either have front and rear aircon or none. There used to also
be an intermediate TX4 with driver aircon only.


Wasn't that the TXII ?

On 2012\08\30 19:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\08\30 15:08, Recliner wrote:

Ah, I thought only the TX4 driver's cab was air-conditioned. I suppose
it's been quite a while since I travelled in a London taxi on a hot
day, so I've probably not been in the latest model.

New TX4s either have front and rear aircon or none. There used to also
be an intermediate TX4 with driver aircon only.


Wasn't that the TXII ?

No. Any TX4 "Silver" has driver-only air-con.
http://www.london-taxis.co.uk/jsp/in...temsperpage=10

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\08\30 19:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\08\30 15:08, Recliner wrote:

Ah, I thought only the TX4 driver's cab was air-conditioned. I suppose
it's been quite a while since I travelled in a London taxi on a hot
day, so I've probably not been in the latest model.

New TX4s either have front and rear aircon or none. There used to also
be an intermediate TX4 with driver aircon only.


Wasn't that the TXII ?

No. Any TX4 "Silver" has driver-only air-con.
http://www.london-taxis.co.uk/jsp/in...temsperpage=10


Thanks John. That's a useful site. It appears that the TX4 Bronze
has no aircon, the TX4 Silver has aircon for the driver only (as you
said) and the TX4 Gold has aircon for the driver and passengers.