"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them.

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

On Dec 13, 1:26*pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

...

Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them..

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. CJB.

On 13/12/2012 14:31, CJB wrote:
On Dec 13, 1:26 pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

...

Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them.

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. CJB.


No, if they have to change the bus' destination, thus curtailing its
run, then you can simply ask the driver for a continuation ticket.

That's how they do it in London, at least.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Dec 13, 11:07*pm, "
wrote:
On 13/12/2012 14:31, CJB wrote:









On Dec 13, 1:26 pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

...

Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them.

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. *CJB.

No, if they have to change the bus' destination, thus curtailing its
run, then you can simply ask the driver for a continuation ticket.

That's how they do it in London, at least.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

That is not how they do it London. This is SUPPOSED to be the way, but
most times the drivers simply can't be bothered - they just put a pre-
recorded announcement on about a change of destination, flick the
lights on and off when they get there, and tell everyone to get off
and catch the next bus behind, So only knowing commuters ask for a
ticket, or simply talk their way into getting onto the next bus for
free. Everyone else incl. hapless tourists touch-in again and occur an
extra fare. As I said this scam rakes in millions of extra revenue for
TfL - all due to the laziness or indifference of the drivers. CJB

In message
, at
05:20:59 on Fri, 14 Dec 2012, CJB remarked:
And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. *CJB.

No, if they have to change the bus' destination, thus curtailing its
run, then you can simply ask the driver for a continuation ticket.

That's how they do it in London, at least.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

That is not how they do it London. This is SUPPOSED to be the way, but
most times the drivers simply can't be bothered - they just put a pre-
recorded announcement on about a change of destination, flick the
lights on and off when they get there, and tell everyone to get off
and catch the next bus behind, So only knowing commuters ask for a
ticket, or simply talk their way into getting onto the next bus for
free.

Wouldn't commuters have a season ticket anyway?

Everyone else incl. hapless tourists touch-in again and occur an
extra fare.

Yes, they are ones who suffer, domestic 'tourists' as well as foreign
ones.
--
Roland Perry

CJB writes:


That is not how they do it London. This is SUPPOSED to be the way, but
most times the drivers simply can't be bothered - they just put a pre-
recorded announcement on about a change of destination, flick the
lights on and off when they get there, and tell everyone to get off
and catch the next bus behind, So only knowing commuters ask for a
ticket, or simply talk their way into getting onto the next bus for
free. Everyone else incl. hapless tourists touch-in again and occur an
extra fare. As I said this scam rakes in millions of extra revenue for
TfL - all due to the laziness or indifference of the drivers. CJB
I have only ever come across a change of destination/going out of
service in London. Thats the only time the bus has been driven away.

Elsewhere the only time I have had to change buses is due to breakdown,
so when the relief/following bus arrives you just swap over.

Paul Corfield wrote on 14 December 2012 13:38:30 ...

Oh and while we're on this subject please tell me what fool proof
system Paris or Berlin use that prevents exactly the same problem
happening to tourists? Last time I used a bus in Paris I was turfed
off a bus that was short turned. No one told me what I or anyone else
had to do when the next bus turned up.

In Paris, the standard single-journey "t+" ticket is valid for a journey
made up of several bus segments, so presumably you are meant to validate
it again on the next bus, as you would do if you were changing routes.
I'm not sure whether the system would regard that as a breach of the
no-break-of-journey rule on a single route. I suspect it just checks
against the maximum 1.5 hour journey time.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 14/12/2012 23:30, Paul Corfield wrote:

I don't mind criticism provided it is rooted somewhere in reality and
not drowning in unfounded hyperbole.

In that case, I don't think Usenet is the right place for you


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Paul Corfield wrote on 14 December 2012 23:30:22 ...
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:27:56 +0000, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote on 14 December 2012 13:38:30 ...

Oh and while we're on this subject please tell me what fool proof
system Paris or Berlin use that prevents exactly the same problem
happening to tourists? Last time I used a bus in Paris I was turfed
off a bus that was short turned. No one told me what I or anyone else
had to do when the next bus turned up.

In Paris, the standard single-journey "t+" ticket is valid for a journey
made up of several bus segments, so presumably you are meant to validate
it again on the next bus, as you would do if you were changing routes.
I'm not sure whether the system would regard that as a breach of the
no-break-of-journey rule on a single route. I suspect it just checks
against the maximum 1.5 hour journey time.

Yes but where I was told this by the evil money grabbing megalomaniacs
that run RATP who just want to steal my tourist Euros? :-)

Huh? These are the money grabbing megalomaniacs that offer you a cash
fare in zone 1 of the equivalent of £1.04 (if you buy a carnet of 10
tickets, othewise £1.39). I can see you were just itching to do a
Boltar if a non-London opportunity arose. :-)

I don't mind criticism provided it is rooted somewhere in reality and
not drowning in unfounded hyperbole.

Unless it's about Paris, apparently. :-)
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Paul Corfield wrote on 15 December 2012 23:54:30 ...
On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:33:11 +0000, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote on 14 December 2012 23:30:22 ...
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:27:56 +0000, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote on 14 December 2012 13:38:30 ...

Oh and while we're on this subject please tell me what fool proof
system Paris or Berlin use that prevents exactly the same problem
happening to tourists? Last time I used a bus in Paris I was turfed
off a bus that was short turned. No one told me what I or anyone else
had to do when the next bus turned up.

In Paris, the standard single-journey "t+" ticket is valid for a journey
made up of several bus segments, so presumably you are meant to validate
it again on the next bus, as you would do if you were changing routes.
I'm not sure whether the system would regard that as a breach of the
no-break-of-journey rule on a single route. I suspect it just checks
against the maximum 1.5 hour journey time.

Yes but where I was told this by the evil money grabbing megalomaniacs
that run RATP who just want to steal my tourist Euros? :-)

Huh? These are the money grabbing megalomaniacs that offer you a cash
fare in zone 1 of the equivalent of £1.04 (if you buy a carnet of 10
tickets, othewise £1.39). I can see you were just itching to do a
Boltar if a non-London opportunity arose. :-)

Oh I am not worthy of out-boltaring Boltar. The Master cannot be
beaten.

I don't mind criticism provided it is rooted somewhere in reality and
not drowning in unfounded hyperbole.

Unless it's about Paris, apparently. :-)

Err there was a smiley you know even though Paris is no better at
telling you what happens to your ticket, in the event of a bus
curtailment, than London is. I am simply pointing out that rules that
cover "unusual" events are rarely overt and rarely published in other
than the main language of the Country in question. The OP was trying
to portray TfL as somehow worse than everywhere else tourists go and
that they were deliberately perpetrating a scam. I am merely
suggesting they're just the same as everywhere else. I'd love to know
where, for example, the English language version of Keio Bus's (of
Tokyo) commercial rules is?!

Agreed. Indeed, my uncertainty about the precise rules in Paris was
because even the French-language explanation on the RATP site was
unclear. I doubt whether it's mentioned at all in the limited
English-language subset - let me have a look .....

Haha! There's a link to a "Ticket t+ information sheet", but it
produces "404 non trouvé"!

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)