On 12/12/2012 23:54, Neil Williams wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.


Depends on the reader, really. I have two contactless transport cards in
my current Oyster card holder, one being an Oyster card, the other being
from another city on the continent. I can bang them both together on
some bus lines and fare gates, and the reader will read only the Oyster
Card. Readers on other busses or fare gates will indicate that there is
more than one card and that it can distinguish between the two.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

In message

..net, at 23:54:15 on Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Neil Williams
remarked:
I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard

Although some (not many) are using ITSO instead, which has the advantage
that it works when you aren't paying (twirly card) and also supports
season tickets.

when the banks can do it for them.

Who owns and runs the capping system? And that's not just a TfL sort of
capping but bus companies where you buy an "all day" ticket, and then
swipe in with it multiple times during the day.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 22:49:44 on Wed, 12
Dec 2012, Barry Salter remarked:
Chiltern are doing a limited experiment with contactless payment for
Singles and Returns (including, strangely, Senior Railcard discounts,
but *only* Senior Railcard discount) from Great Missenden to Marylebone.

You can't just "touch in" at Great Missenden and out at Marylebone,
instead you buy a "ticket" from a reprogrammed Parkeon Strada car park
payment machine at Great Missenden, which prints a slightly modified
car park type ticket.

East Coast badly need contactless payment at their car park machines.
Not only do you have to pay through the nose, but they are incredibly
slow taking card payments currently.
--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20694027

The timescale of this was what I asked about just two weeks ago, and
voila it's here - not the full version by any means, as they'll be no
capping initially, and it'll be some while longer before other TfL
modes (Tube, DLR, LO etc) accept it, with no word yet on NR.

So

With only XX percentage of customers having a "contactless" bank card (I
don't have one, and I have 3 bank cards in my wallet).

Only usable on the bus

and no capping even to the one day buss pass.

I predict a complete failure of this experiment

It's an experiment to test the technology in the real world, not to prove
that large numbers of people will use this limited, first stage
implementation. On that basis, it'll be a success if the technology works
reliably,

How will they know if it works reliably?

No-one is going to complain if the don't get charged and few are going to
notice if they are overcharged, so how are they going to measure the failure
rate?

tim

wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2012 22:58, Mizter T wrote:

On 12/12/2012 22:37, tim..... wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20694027

The timescale of this was what I asked about just two weeks ago, and
voila it's here - not the full version by any means, as they'll be no
capping initially, and it'll be some while longer before other TfL
modes (Tube, DLR, LO etc) accept it, with no word yet on NR.

So

With only XX percentage of customers having a "contactless" bank card (I
don't have one, and I have 3 bank cards in my wallet).

Only usable on the bus

and no capping even to the one day buss pass.

I predict a complete failure of this experiment

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

Will this eventually mean the demise of Oystercards?

Only if they can find a politically correct way of forcing the unbanked to
pay higher fares (who are mainly the young/poor).

tim

wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2012 22:37, tim..... wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20694027

The timescale of this was what I asked about just two weeks ago, and
voila it's here - not the full version by any means, as they'll be no
capping initially, and it'll be some while longer before other TfL
modes (Tube, DLR, LO etc) accept it, with no word yet on NR.

So

With only XX percentage of customers having a "contactless" bank card (I
don't have one, and I have 3 bank cards in my wallet).

Only usable on the bus

and no capping even to the one day buss pass.

I predict a complete failure of this experiment

tim


I thought that banks were starting to redistribute cards with the
contactless feature, however.

ITYF that they started this about 2 years ago

I still don't have one (not by choice)

tim



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them.

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

On Dec 13, 1:26*pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

...

Mizter T wrote:

I (genuinely) totally disagree with you - I think this will eventually
become one of the so-called 'killer applications' that pushes the
contactless card payment method into the mainstream.

(And FWIW, I haven't got a contactless card in my wallet either!)

I have two, and it means I have to get my Oyster out of my wallet now,
while I used to be able to just bang the whole wallet on the reader.

But yes, I agree, this will become a "killer app" - particularly for
non-London bus companies who don't wish to spend a fortune on the
infrastructure to do a PAYG smartcard when the banks can do it for them..

Is the bit that you are saving going to be significant?

You're still going to have to have a reader in every bus.

You still need to download the data each day to some central collation
point.

You need to provide some sort of intelligent ticketing - most rural bus
companies offer discount returns.

You'll need a "complaints" department to handle mis-reads.

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. CJB.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:31:24 -0800 (PST), CJB
wrote:

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. CJB.

As the bus network requires £400m subsidy a year (figure quoted by a
Mr Peter Hendy in a recent London Assembly session) I struggle with
the concept of TfL making "millions of pounds *extra* profit".

I would also be grateful if you could point to the data that underpins
your "interesting" [1] statement. You also need to be careful with
words like "scam" which suggests deliberate intent to rip people off.

however not fixing the OSI "bug" does seem to be deliberate.

tim

On 13/12/2012 16:54, tim..... wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:31:24 -0800 (PST), CJB
wrote:

And if the bus service is curtailed - that is cut short of its
destination - then when you board the bus behind you end up paying
twice. That's a scam that TfL have been running for years. It nets
them millions of pounds extra profit. Tourists are usually affected by
this the most. CJB.

As the bus network requires £400m subsidy a year (figure quoted by a
Mr Peter Hendy in a recent London Assembly session) I struggle with
the concept of TfL making "millions of pounds *extra* profit".

I would also be grateful if you could point to the data that underpins
your "interesting" [1] statement. You also need to be careful with
words like "scam" which suggests deliberate intent to rip people off.

however not fixing the OSI "bug" does seem to be deliberate.

Nonsense.