In message , at 22:00:56 on Sat, 22 Dec
2012, The Real Doctor remarked:
"And standing" normally means at most one extra passenger per row of
seats, so 25% over capacity.

Mush more than that, you've forgotten the vestibules (although there
have been cases reported of Virgin clearing them) and people standing
next to non-seating areas like toilets and luggage racks. I've also
travelled sat in the luggage racks, and the area outside the disabled
tiolets is quite large.
--
Roland Perry

The Real Doctor writes:

True, but there is typically only one unbooked carriage, into which
the displaced passengers from several other trains are unlikely to
fit.

Or, as BR did on a number of occasions when there was disruption, cancel
all reservations.

On Dec 22, 10:03*pm, Graham Murray wrote:
The Real Doctor writes:

True, but there is typically only one unbooked carriage, into which
the displaced passengers from several other trains are unlikely to
fit.

Or, as BR did on a number of occasions when there was disruption, cancel
all reservations.

It's interesting that the railways have an extensive pattern of things
to do when they fail to run a service, but put far less effort into
not failing in the first place. It's a fine line between contingency
planning and failure becoming normal.

ian

"ian batten" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 10:03 pm, Graham Murray wrote:
The Real Doctor writes:

True, but there is typically only one unbooked carriage, into which
the displaced passengers from several other trains are unlikely to
fit.

Or, as BR did on a number of occasions when there was disruption, cancel
all reservations.

It's interesting that the railways have an extensive pattern of things
to do when they fail to run a service, but put far less effort into
not failing in the first place. It's a fine line between contingency
planning and failure becoming normal.

ian

=============================================

I'll be interested to see what they do around Exeter. Apparently the
reason why the line between Taunton and Exeter has been (is still?) closed
today is that some form of defense has been built to stop the flood waters
damaging the track but it means trains can't run. Given how long it took
them to sort everything out earlier in December that doesn't see totally
unreasonable as a temporary solution - once the water recedes they'll be
able to run again soon after but it's not a permanent solution. I just
hope it doesn't become the default contingency.

"CJB" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know why ALL trains to / from Heathrow have been cancelled
without notice for TWO days?

Some reports say signal failure, others say cable theft, others say
points failure at Airport Junction, others say was a fire at
Paddington.

What IS certain is that the severe disruption into / out of Paddington
has been going on since 11.00 Thursday morning, and are likely to
persist until 15.00 Friday afternoon.

As is typical for FGW / Heathrow NO MANAGEMENT WERE IN SIGHT on the
concourse at Paddington during the day nor during the evening rush-
hour on Thursday.

NO CONTINGENCY PLANS WERE IN PLACE to get airline pax to Heathrow to
make their flights. HEX staff at Paddington were telling pax to get
the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow - actually not that easy to do esp.
with luggage. And T4L were not accepting HEX or HConn tickets.

And the thousands who missed their flights from Heathrow likely also
found that they missed their onward flight connections, missed meeting
accommodation bookings, and are likely to miss spending Christmas with
their relatives / friends. And with the Christmas getaway now in full
swing thousands will find that rebooking flights is not an option
before the New Year.

Also most (all?) Intercity trains from Paddington to the West were
cancelled. Again rebooking is likely to be an issue since all
subsequent trains are likely to be fully booked. And trains are not
likely to be running again until later Friday afternoon.

What few trains that were running - mainly Intercitys - were not
stopping at local stations due to over-crowding or more likely not
having stop orders issued. So pax at local stations had to wait and
wait and wait until a train condescended to stop for them.

Wonderful chaos as usual. And FGW / Heathriw / NetworkRail management
doesn't give a damn.

I think (but can't be absolutely sure) that yesterday (Thursday 20th) there
was a "signal failure" in the Slough/Southall area. This was followed by a
further failure on the Heathrow branch. Today (Friday 21st) there has been
a fire somewhere around Westbourne Park.

What I'm less clear about is what effect each one has had. I assume the
suspension of HeX and HC is due to the problems on the branch but I can't
help feeling that the removal of those trains has been a benefit to the rest
of the operation because, however many trains may be suffering at least
those 6 each way every hour are out of the way. The original signal
failure seems to have left only 2 lines operational.

The BBC seems to be trying to blame the fire at Westbourne Park (and I'm
beginning to wonder if that is actually where the fire is/was) for all the
chaos but I find that very difficult to believe.

In message , at 14:05:49 on
Fri, 21 Dec 2012, Graham Harrison
remarked:
The BBC seems to be trying to blame the fire at Westbourne Park (and
I'm beginning to wonder if that is actually where the fire is/was) for
all the chaos but I find that very difficult to believe.

It's an improvement on the earlier BBC News that ran with a top story
about the weather, and how it was affecting roads and trains "and now
over to our man in Bristol" who then described cancellations to
Paddington. And right at the end almost didn't mention - "Oh by the way,
nothing to do with flooding it was a fire".
--
Roland Perry

On Dec 21, 2:31*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:05:49 on
Fri, 21 Dec 2012, Graham Harrison
remarked:

The BBC seems to be trying to blame the fire at Westbourne Park (and
I'm beginning to wonder if that is actually where the fire is/was) for
all the chaos but I find that very difficult to believe.

It's an improvement on the earlier BBC News that ran with a top story
about the weather, and how it was affecting roads and trains "and now
over to our man in Bristol" who then described cancellations to
Paddington. And right at the end almost didn't mention - "Oh by the way,
nothing to do with flooding it was a fire".
--
Roland Perry

Obviously this is the first sign of the 2012 Apocalypse. I'm pretty
sure this is a government plot to divert people's attention from the
rapidly approaching fireball, that will wipe out all life in a few
hours time. Alternately, it is the usual problem, our rail network
cannot cope with anything going wrong. We're lucky a snowflake hasn't
fallen on a hilltop in the Chilterns, the whole country would grind to
a halt.

Neill

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

"CJB" wrote in message

...
Does anyone know why ALL trains to / from Heathrow have been cancelled
without notice for TWO days?

Some reports say signal failure, others say cable theft, others say
points failure at Airport Junction, others say was a fire at Paddington.

What IS certain is that the severe disruption into / out of Paddington
has been going on since 11.00 Thursday morning, and are likely to
persist until 15.00 Friday afternoon.

As is typical for FGW / Heathrow NO MANAGEMENT WERE IN SIGHT on the
concourse at Paddington during the day nor during the evening rush-
hour on Thursday.

NO CONTINGENCY PLANS WERE IN PLACE to get airline pax to Heathrow to
make their flights. HEX staff at Paddington were telling pax to get
the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow - actually not that easy to do esp.
with luggage. And T4L were not accepting HEX or HConn tickets.

And the thousands who missed their flights from Heathrow likely also
found that they missed their onward flight connections, missed meeting
accommodation bookings, and are likely to miss spending Christmas with
their relatives / friends. And with the Christmas getaway now in full
swing thousands will find that rebooking flights is not an option
before the New Year.

Also most (all?) Intercity trains from Paddington to the West were
cancelled. Again rebooking is likely to be an issue since all
subsequent trains are likely to be fully booked. And trains are not
likely to be running again until later Friday afternoon.

What few trains that were running - mainly Intercitys - were not
stopping at local stations due to over-crowding or more likely not
having stop orders issued. So pax at local stations had to wait and
wait and wait until a train condescended to stop for them.

Wonderful chaos as usual. And FGW / Heathriw / NetworkRail management
doesn't give a damn.

I think (but can't be absolutely sure) that yesterday (Thursday 20th)
there was a "signal failure" in the Slough/Southall area. This was
followed by a further failure on the Heathrow branch. Today (Friday
21st) there has been a fire somewhere around Westbourne Park.

What I'm less clear about is what effect each one has had. I assume
the suspension of HeX and HC is due to the problems on the branch but
I can't help feeling that the removal of those trains has been a
benefit to the rest of the operation because, however many trains may
be suffering at least those 6 each way every hour are out of the way.
The original signal failure seems to have left only 2 lines
operational.

The BBC seems to be trying to blame the fire at Westbourne Park (and
I'm beginning to wonder if that is actually where the fire is/was)
for all the chaos but I find that very difficult to believe.

Isn't another problem that HEX and HC use the relief Lines and only the Main
are available so far?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

"CJB" wrote in message

...
Does anyone know why ALL trains to / from Heathrow have been cancelled
without notice for TWO days?

Some reports say signal failure, others say cable theft, others say
points failure at Airport Junction, others say was a fire at
Paddington.

What IS certain is that the severe disruption into / out of Paddington
has been going on since 11.00 Thursday morning, and are likely to
persist until 15.00 Friday afternoon.

As is typical for FGW / Heathrow NO MANAGEMENT WERE IN SIGHT on the
concourse at Paddington during the day nor during the evening rush-
hour on Thursday.

NO CONTINGENCY PLANS WERE IN PLACE to get airline pax to Heathrow to
make their flights. HEX staff at Paddington were telling pax to get
the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow - actually not that easy to do esp.
with luggage. And T4L were not accepting HEX or HConn tickets.

And the thousands who missed their flights from Heathrow likely also
found that they missed their onward flight connections, missed meeting
accommodation bookings, and are likely to miss spending Christmas with
their relatives / friends. And with the Christmas getaway now in full
swing thousands will find that rebooking flights is not an option
before the New Year.

Also most (all?) Intercity trains from Paddington to the West were
cancelled. Again rebooking is likely to be an issue since all
subsequent trains are likely to be fully booked. And trains are not
likely to be running again until later Friday afternoon.

What few trains that were running - mainly Intercitys - were not
stopping at local stations due to over-crowding or more likely not
having stop orders issued. So pax at local stations had to wait and
wait and wait until a train condescended to stop for them.

Wonderful chaos as usual. And FGW / Heathriw / NetworkRail management
doesn't give a damn.

I think (but can't be absolutely sure) that yesterday (Thursday 20th)
there was a "signal failure" in the Slough/Southall area. This was
followed by a further failure on the Heathrow branch. Today (Friday
21st) there has been a fire somewhere around Westbourne Park.

What I'm less clear about is what effect each one has had. I assume
the suspension of HeX and HC is due to the problems on the branch but
I can't help feeling that the removal of those trains has been a
benefit to the rest of the operation because, however many trains may
be suffering at least those 6 each way every hour are out of the way.
The original signal failure seems to have left only 2 lines
operational.

The BBC seems to be trying to blame the fire at Westbourne Park (and
I'm beginning to wonder if that is actually where the fire is/was)
for all the chaos but I find that very difficult to believe.

Isn't another problem that HEX and HC use the relief Lines and only the
Main
are available so far?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

HEX use the main and HC the relief. One of the problems with Airport
Junction is that it was built to serve the main lines and trying to get HC
to the relief lines means running up trains on the down line flyover so
while the slip from the down main sees the 4 HEX/hour the up slip/flyover
sees 4 up HEX, 2 up HC and 2 down HC/hour.