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[email protected] · January 6th 13, 09:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
14:22:00 on Sun, 6 Jan 2013, remarked:

Whenever the news reports a "busy day" at Heathrow, the numbers they
quote are usually extremely close to the average. Because most
flights at Heathrow are full, and there's no slots for extra
aircraft, there isn't much of a daily fluctuation.

(From the airport's website, daily average 190k/busiest ever day 233k)

The amount of luggage accompanying the passengers varies more I suspect.
This is the winter holiday period. Business travellers carry rather less,
I have a feeling.

So the people with a problem are the tourists travelling business
class with lots of luggage, rather than the businessmen who would
otherwise be travelling business class with less luggage.

Huh? Where did business class come into it? Certainly on my flight there was
almost no-one in business class but there were a lot of people in Economy
with a lot of luggage.

I suspect your target audience would rather be seen dead than using
public transport to depart Heathrow.

You've missed my point entirely.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Recliner[_2_] · January 6th 13, 09:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london

wrote:
In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:37:46 -0000, "D A Stocks"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

Why oh why don't they let airport passengers use Heathrow Express or
Connect as an alternative
They do, don't they? = or are you saying Heathrow Express wasn't
running either?

Not routinely. It only happens on limited occasions when travel
options are very limited or rail replacement vehicles are in short
supply due to the volume of work on any given weekend. Even then it is
often only Heathrow Connect that can be used as HEX don't seem to want
people overloading the Express service. I expect money is also a
factor.

Previous closures of the Heathrow branch itself has seen coaches used
express from Acton Town to Heathrow because of their superior luggage
carrying capabilities. Buses are still needed for the all stns
service. No matter how you try to do it there are no convenient
locations for rail replacement transfer in West London.

Hammersmith - busy, overcrowded, overloaded bus stns, congested roads.
Acton Town - local roads struggle to cope with the volume of buses,
pavements too narrow for waiting passengers.
Ealing Broadway - similar to Hammersmith but with less room in the
ticket hall. Oh and a 1 way system past the station making drop offs /
pick ups difficult.

However the tracks and bridges on the 4 track section really do need
work doing to them. Unfortunately you can't run trains while doing
that.

Is it really not possible to close only two tracks at a time more?
The most inexplicable was the choice of such a busy weekend at
Heathrow for a blockade.

You had a number of options at various prices for the journey. You
took a choice for the price you were prepared to pay, and that's the
service you got.

I am off to hide under a table as I can feel the wrath of Rosenstiel
approaching!

When I found out about the works (daughter's boyfriend tipped her
off while we were away) and looked at the TfL journey planner from
abroad it didn't seem an unreasonable alternative via Acton Town
and Ealing Broadway. In particular it seemed to compare OK with any
via Paddington option.

Reality turned out to be rather different with the inexplicable
decision to terminate Heathrow shuttles at Northfields and the
abysmal lack of support for large numbers of passengers with
luggage there, at Acton Town and at Ealing Broadway (best of the
bunch). There was a tendency for what staff there were to hide in a
room giving out occasional PA announcements with blank platform
information screens.

Actually, you were lucky that both lifts at Acton Town were working:
judging by the Picc's Twitter feed, those lifts fail rather often.

Actually, after looking at the queue, I carried the cases up the stairs.

I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the
decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields?

That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits were
for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't appear to
allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent unless you could
hear the announcements.

Presumably there were two Picc shuttles and one District shuttle running
into a station that normally has mainly through trains? A few trains do
reverse there, using the sidings on each side of the station, but certainly
not three shuttles from the west, so I'm not surprised that the capacity
was very limited. What might have been cool would have been to allow pax to
stay on the train during the reversal, thus getting them to the opposite
platform without using the stairs or lifts, but I suppose that's not
allowed.

Recliner[_2_] · January 6th 13, 10:36 PM posted to uk.transport.london

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message ,
writes
I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the
decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields?

That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits
were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't
appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent
unless you could hear the announcements.

It doesn't. All moves have to go via the sidings.

As the District would have been taking one for the EBY service, the
Piccadilly only had two available and one of those would have to be
available for Rayners Lane trains, leaving one for trains from Heathrow.

Would it be possible for pax to stay on board during the trip through the
sidings? That would save them having to cross via the bridge.

Also, a more revolutionary thought, given how many pax would have wanted to
do what Colin's family did, would it be possible to run a special Picc
service from Heathrow to Ealing Bdy via Action Town, including an
in-service reversal? That would help a lot of pax (including those wanting
the Rayners Lane branch, who could change at Ealing Common), and would
minimise pax over-crowding and bridge crossing at Acton Town.

Recliner[_2_] · January 6th 13, 10:36 PM posted to uk.transport.london

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message ,
writes

They stopped allowing tube passengers from using HEx as an alternative
ages ago. They also seem to have an awful lot of engineering
possessions closing all four tracks between Hammersmith and Acton Town.

'an awful lot' being two in the past 12 months?

Really? I've not been that way since August/September I must admit. It does
make the choice of this weekend odder. Or was last weekend the other?

Last weekend was open from HAM to ACT.

That closure was South Ken to West Ken and Edgware Road - Wimbledon (so
ECT was totally closed to District trains) but the Piccadilly ran throughout.

I wonder what was being done at Earls Court for all the subs-surface lines
to be closed?

[email protected] · January 6th 13, 10:42 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:17:17 -0600,
wrote:

My daughter came from Heathrow today by 105 bus to Hayes & Harlington and
Heathrow Connect from there using Oyster.

140 to Hayes & Harlington or 105 to Southall.

Her bad memory. Boyfriend distraction probably. :-)

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[email protected] · January 6th 13, 11:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the
waits were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling
didn't appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was
non-existent unless you could hear the announcements.

Presumably there were two Picc shuttles and one District shuttle running
into a station that normally has mainly through trains? A few trains do
reverse there, using the sidings on each side of the station, but
certainly not three shuttles from the west, so I'm not surprised that the
capacity was very limited. What might have been cool would have been to
allow pax to stay on the train during the reversal, thus getting them to
the opposite platform without using the stairs or lifts, but I suppose
that's not allowed.

Were there three shuttles though? I'm not sure the Piccadilly wasn't
shuttling from Ealing Common (to Rayners Lane and ?beyond). Anyway, three
platforms were in use. I suppose the signalling can't cope with in-platform
reversals?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[email protected] · January 6th 13, 11:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message ,
writes
I wonder if reversing capacity at Acton Town was limited, hence the
decision to terminate some of the shuttles at Northfields?

That was the claim which I find hard to credit given how long the waits
were for trains at Northfields and Acton Town. The signalling didn't
appear to allow reversal in platforms and the PIS was non-existent
unless you could hear the announcements.

It doesn't. All moves have to go via the sidings.

As the District would have been taking one for the EBY service, the
Piccadilly only had two available and one of those would have to be
available for Rayners Lane trains, leaving one for trains from
Heathrow.

Would it be possible for pax to stay on board during the trip through the
sidings? That would save them having to cross via the bridge.

Also, a more revolutionary thought, given how many pax would have wanted
to do what Colin's family did, would it be possible to run a special Picc
service from Heathrow to Ealing Bdy via Action Town, including an
in-service reversal? That would help a lot of pax (including those wanting
the Rayners Lane branch, who could change at Ealing Common), and would
minimise pax over-crowding and bridge crossing at Acton Town.

Now you're being far too clever!

It does surprise me that the signalling doesn't allow reversal in the
platforms, given that Acton Works (as was) and Ealing Common Depot are
adjacent.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roland Perry · January 7th 13, 06:12 AM posted to uk.transport.london

In message , at 16:10:12
on Sun, 6 Jan 2013, remarked:
Whenever the news reports a "busy day" at Heathrow, the numbers they
quote are usually extremely close to the average. Because most
flights at Heathrow are full, and there's no slots for extra
aircraft, there isn't much of a daily fluctuation.

(From the airport's website, daily average 190k/busiest ever day 233k)

The amount of luggage accompanying the passengers varies more I suspect.
This is the winter holiday period. Business travellers carry rather less,
I have a feeling.

So the people with a problem are the tourists travelling business
class with lots of luggage, rather than the businessmen who would
otherwise be travelling business class with less luggage.

Huh? Where did business class come into it?

You mentioned business passengers.

Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class

So maybe the airport was quieter than usual.

but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage.

There always are.
--
Roland Perry

[email protected] · January 7th 13, 08:04 AM posted to uk.transport.london

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
16:10:12 on Sun, 6 Jan 2013, remarked:
Whenever the news reports a "busy day" at Heathrow, the numbers they
quote are usually extremely close to the average. Because most
flights at Heathrow are full, and there's no slots for extra
aircraft, there isn't much of a daily fluctuation.

(From the airport's website, daily average 190k/busiest ever day
233k)

The amount of luggage accompanying the passengers varies more I
suspect. This is the winter holiday period. Business travellers carry
rather less, I have a feeling.

So the people with a problem are the tourists travelling business
class with lots of luggage, rather than the businessmen who would
otherwise be travelling business class with less luggage.

Huh? Where did business class come into it?

You mentioned business passengers.

Travelling at times other than the first weekend after the new year!

Certainly on my flight there was almost no-one in business class

So maybe the airport was quieter than usual.

No, it was full of people in Economy with lots of luggage! Do keep up,
Roland!

but there were a lot of people in Economy with a lot of luggage.

There always are.

Not so much luggage in the summer.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Recliner[_2_] · January 7th 13, 09:59 AM posted to uk.transport.london

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message ,
writes
Presumably there were two Picc shuttles and one District shuttle running
into a station that normally has mainly through trains? A few trains do
reverse there, using the sidings on each side of the station, but
certainly not three shuttles from the west, so I'm not surprised that the
capacity was very limited. What might have been cool would have been to
allow pax to stay on the train during the reversal, thus getting them to
the opposite platform without using the stairs or lifts, but I suppose
that's not allowed.

Were there three shuttles though? I'm not sure the Piccadilly wasn't
shuttling from Ealing Common (to Rayners Lane and ?beyond). Anyway,
three platforms were in use. I suppose the signalling can't cope with
in-platform reversals?

Not the signalling; the track layout doesn't allow it.

What about the eastbound District track? Can't trains reverse there and get
back on to the right line just before Ealing Common station?

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