In message , at 14:41:49 on
Mon, 14 Jan 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:
Yet these increases in dwell time would probably not be as great as the
increase when driver only operation[1] replaced rear platform buses with
a conductor.

[1] Especially where you have to pay the driver and receive change.

Probably not as great but still a factor that needs to be considered -
especially at peak times where buses can be full or already have long
dwell times in Central / Inner London.

Out in the provinces the existence of "all day" tickets (typically
around £4) means people only have to pay once, and combine that with an
"exact change only" policy and it's quicker overall than having people
fumbling in their purses to find their bus pass.
--
Roland Perry

http://www.priceoftravel.com/595/pub...ldwide-cities/

So, it looks like they've overstated the minimum London fare, and
included peak fares for routes from the centre to places well outside
London when calculating the maximum fare. I wonder how wide ranging an
area the fares they quote for other cities are?

For Toronto...
For the New York subway...
For Paris...
For San Francisco...

Thanks for the info -- do the fares quoted look right for these cities?

A further issue that can make these comparisons misleading is that some
cities offer reduced fares if you buy, say, 5 tickets at a time -- what
the French call a carnet -- and others don't. I think the carnet fare
is the correct comparison since most people who don't use a pass (season
ticket) will pay that amount. They have chosen to show the single-trip
fares. If they had shown the carnet-type fares, the numbers for New York,
Toronto, and Paris would have been lower by amounts (using today's fares
in early 2013) varying from 7% to 21%.

And do they, like London, have different off-peak fares?

In all four cases, not that I am aware of.
--
Mark Brader "Well, it's not in MY interest -- and I represent
Toronto the public, so it's not in the public interest!"
-- Jim Hacker, "Yes, Minister" (Lynn & Jay)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On 14/01/13 17:10, Roland Perry wrote:
Out in the provinces the existence of "all day" tickets (typically
around £4) means people only have to pay once, and combine that with an
"exact change only" policy and it's quicker overall than having people
fumbling in their purses to find their bus pass.

Unfortunately my job is moving to Swindon, where apparently many of the
buses are "exact change only". I thought that sort of thing had gone out 30
years ago. It makes me very reluctant to use the buses because I can't be
sure of having the correct fare, especially if I have no idea what the fare
would be and the only way to find out the fare seems is to get on a bus and
ask. This is extremely unfriendly to passengers.

Roger

On 14/01/2013 07:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
.
net, at 23:51:22 on Sun, 13 Jan 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Exit validation does apply in Singapore but societal norms are a bit
different there.

The Dutch also have it. As their culture is much more similar to the
UK, I
would be interested in how it's working there.

On the trams they have little gates at the exit doors, to make sure
people "touch out". I think it's the only place I've ever seen other
than an unimpeded exit from a bus or tram.

I hear that they have them on some surface transport in Moscow.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 14/01/2013 11:31, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 14 Jan 2013 09:33:38 GMT, Neil Williams
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

On the trams they have little gates at the exit doors, to make sure
people "touch out". I think it's the only place I've ever seen other than
an unimpeded exit from a bus or tram.

If you mean Amsterdam, aren't they just one-way gates as found on some
bendy buses in the UK? I think they were there before.

That's what they looked like when I was last there. The concept dates
back to when conductors were put on Amsterdam's trams. Open boarding
was abolished in favour of boarding via certain doors and exiting via
others. Gates were put on the exit only doors to try to prevent people
dodging on and not going past the conductor booth. I think I even saw
some of the modern trams with conductors still on board but my memory
may be playing tricks.

The last time I was in Amsterdam, about 7 years ago, the newer trams had
conductors who sat in a booth and would stamp your strippenkaart as you
boarded.

Are they no longer there?

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 14/01/2013 19:24, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 14/01/13 17:10, Roland Perry wrote:
Out in the provinces the existence of "all day" tickets (typically
around £4) means people only have to pay once, and combine that with an
"exact change only" policy and it's quicker overall than having people
fumbling in their purses to find their bus pass.

Unfortunately my job is moving to Swindon, where apparently many of the
buses are "exact change only". I thought that sort of thing had gone out 30
years ago. It makes me very reluctant to use the buses because I can't be
sure of having the correct fare, especially if I have no idea what the fare
would be and the only way to find out the fare seems is to get on a bus and
ask. This is extremely unfriendly to passengers.

Roger

You could, of course, find out what the local transport agency is in
Swindon and either access their website or give them a ring.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

In message , at 20:08:44 on Mon, 14
Jan 2013, " remarked:
The last time I was in Amsterdam, about 7 years ago, the newer trams
had conductors who sat in a booth and would stamp your strippenkaart as
you boarded.

Are they no longer there?

The strippenkaarts are long gone.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:24:58 on
Mon, 14 Jan 2013, Roger Lynn remarked:
Out in the provinces the existence of "all day" tickets (typically
around £4) means people only have to pay once, and combine that with an
"exact change only" policy and it's quicker overall than having people
fumbling in their purses to find their bus pass.

Unfortunately my job is moving to Swindon, where apparently many of the
buses are "exact change only". I thought that sort of thing had gone out 30
years ago. It makes me very reluctant to use the buses because I can't be
sure of having the correct fare, especially if I have no idea what the fare
would be and the only way to find out the fare seems is to get on a bus and
ask. This is extremely unfriendly to passengers.

Where I lived in Nottingham it was very simple. That daily cash fare was
£3.40 advertised on all buses, all bus stops, and that miracle of modern
technology the Interweb.

If you didn't want to find the change for every trip you bought a pre-
pay carnet smartcard where each day was discounted (by up to 38%):

http://www.nctx.co.uk/nct-fares/easy...ider-citycard-
anytime-adult/

Even cheaper to buy the equivalent of a season ticket.

I don't know if they have a similar scheme in Swindon.
--
Roland Perry

On 14/01/2013 20:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:08:44 on Mon, 14
Jan 2013, " remarked:
The last time I was in Amsterdam, about 7 years ago, the newer trams
had conductors who sat in a booth and would stamp your strippenkaart
as you boarded.

Are they no longer there?

The strippenkaarts are long gone.

Just discovered I still have a part used one in my wallet.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 14/01/2013 20:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:08:44 on Mon, 14
Jan 2013, " remarked:
The last time I was in Amsterdam, about 7 years ago, the newer trams
had conductors who sat in a booth and would stamp your strippenkaart
as you boarded.

Are they no longer there?

The strippenkaarts are long gone.

I was referring to the conductors, actually. Are they also gone?

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---