In message , Roland Perry
wrote:
70. The first section of the Underground ran between Paddington (Bishop's
Road) and Farringdon Street. The same section now forms part of the Circle,
Hammersmith & City, and Metropolitan lines.

Not the Met.

According to TfL:

"The Metropolitan line runs from Aldgate to Amersham, with branches to
Chesham, Uxbridge and Watford covering 66.7km (41.5 miles)."

Or are you being pedantic about the Baker St-Paddington bit?

Yes. That section now forms part of the Circle and Hammersmith & City
Lines, and parts of that section now form part of the District and
Metropolitan Lines.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Am 11.01.2013 00:12, schrieb Clive D. W. Feather:

147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via Baker
Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is considerably
slower (by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of travellers chose it,
Professor Guo found."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000847/30-passengers-longer-routes-Londons-Tube-map-misrepresents-distances-stations.html
--
Kai Borgolte, Bonn

In message , at 16:59:18 on Fri, 11
Jan 2013, Kai Borgolte remarked:
147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via
Baker Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is
considerably slower (by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of
travellers chose it, Professor Guo found."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000847/30-passengers-longer-routes-Londons-Tube-map-misrepresents-distances-stations.html

As there's a sidebar with nine of the other "fascinating facts" in that
article I think we can conclude it's the source of the 30% figure.

However, it's by no means clear if the 30% is an overall figure (as
suggested at the start of the article)

"Experts who have studied the network, which has been growing
since 1863 when the Metropolitan line opened, have found that as
much as 30 per cent of the network's passengers take the 'wrong'
- or longer - route between two stations."

Or simply conflated with the figure from the later 'illustration' of
Paddington to Bond St.

So we'd have to read the full study (which does seem to be more than
just a handful of trips).
--
Roland Perry

Am 11.01.2013 17:24, schrieb Roland Perry:

So we'd have to read the full study (which does seem to be more than
just a handful of trips).

ftp://ftp.hsrc.unc.edu/pub/TRB2011/data/papers/11-0419.pdf

Lots of models and coefficients in few pages, but I can't spot the 30
percent result. "The main dataset is the Rolling Origin and Destination
Survey (RODS), conducted by Transport for London (TfL) or its
predecessor organization London Transport from 1998 to 2005. RODS
records travel paths including the access, transfer, and egress stations
for more than 250,000 trips in the Underground network."
-- Kai Borgolte, Bonn

"Kai Borgolte" wrote in message
...
Am 11.01.2013 00:12, schrieb Clive D. W. Feather:

147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via Baker
Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is considerably
slower (by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of travellers chose it,
Professor Guo found."

I don't see that he can conclude that it's got anything to do with the
journey "looking" shorted. In the case of catching a train from Padd it
could easily be because access to the circle line platforms is simpler.

Here's another one:

What's the optimum route from Waterloo to King's Cross? The shortest route
on the ground (whichever way that is) or the cross platform connection at
Oxford Circus? And does knowledge about that connection make pax who go
this way count as the "wrong way" or does lack of
knowledge about the connection make pax who go another way count as the
"wrong way"?

tim

In message , at 18:20:45 on Fri, 11
Jan 2013, tim..... remarked:

147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via
Baker Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is
considerably slower (by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of
travellers chose it, Professor Guo found."

I don't see that he can conclude that it's got anything to do with the
journey "looking" shorted.

That's what academics do - they study things and come to conclusions.

In the case of catching a train from Padd it could easily be because
access to the circle line platforms is simpler.

Erm, both routes he was comparing were from the Circle platforms.

Here's another one:

What's the optimum route from Waterloo to King's Cross?

Well known to be via Oxford Circus. Because of the cross-platform
change.

The shortest route on the ground (whichever way that is)

Did you read the article *at all*? Hint: it includes a geographic map as
well.

ps The shortest route on the ground is probably via Leicester Square
(second shortest via Warren St) in both cases the Beck map quite closely
resembling the geographic one.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 18:20:45 on Fri, 11 Jan
2013, tim..... remarked:

147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer
routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via Baker
Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is considerably
slower (by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of travellers chose it,
Professor Guo found."

I don't see that he can conclude that it's got anything to do with the
journey "looking" shorted.

That's what academics do - they study things and come to conclusions.

Yes, but that doesn't make those conclusions right.


In the case of catching a train from Padd it could easily be because
access to the circle line platforms is simpler.

Erm, both routes he was comparing were from the Circle platforms.

Oh

Who would do that, now that you also have to change at Edgware road?

Surely anyone deciding that "change at Baker St" is the way to go is then
going to seek out the platform that has direct trains. And the circle line
isn't it!

Here's another one:

What's the optimum route from Waterloo to King's Cross?

Well known to be via Oxford Circus. Because of the cross-platform change.

The shortest route on the ground (whichever way that is)

Did you read the article *at all*?

Yes.

Hint: it includes a geographic map as well.

ps The shortest route on the ground is probably via Leicester Square
(second shortest via Warren St) in both cases the Beck map quite closely
resembling the geographic one.

I'm not suggesting otherwise.

I'm only questioning this assertion that the "right" way that people should
choose to go can be usefully constructed from the shortest route on the
ground, and that if they don't do this they have done something wrong.

Surely the "right way" is the quickest including average connection time(s)
regardless of the length of track that is traversed.

"Kai Borgolte" wrote in message ...

Am 11.01.2013 00:12, schrieb Clive D. W. Feather:

147. A 2011 study suggested 30 per cent of passengers take longer routes
due to the out-of-scale distances on the Tube map.

I'm very skeptical of that claim.

It may be true for the isolated case Paddington to Bond Street via Baker
Street/Notting Hill Gate: "Although the second route is considerably slower
(by about 15 per cent), some 30 per cent of travellers chose it, Professor
Guo found."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000847/30-passengers-longer-routes-Londons-Tube-map-misrepresents-distances-stations.html

And someone who ignores Paddington station completely and walks to Lancaster
Gate has a good chance of beating both of them.

Peter Smyth

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
The Telegraph has compiled a list of 150 "Tube facts" to go with the
anniversary. Most will be known to the well informed members of this
group,
but some may not be, and some are bound to be disputed. Here's their list:

Thanks for posting this, some great trivia :-)


--
Edward Cowling North London UK
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