Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:14:45 on Tue, 27 Aug
2013, Barry Salter remarked:
A Freedom Pass (and 60+ Oyster) is treated as a Season Ticket (albeit a
time-restricted one) for the purposes of Condition 19(c) of the
National Conditions of Carriage,

That's very helpful, thanks.

thus the train does not need to stop at the relevant station as long as
you're travelling on a participating TOC (i.e. all of them except East
Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

That list is almost as long as a "what did the Romans do for us" list.

It's basically a list of all the TOCs that don't have any trains stopping
twice within the Zones (HEx being an oddity) and thus get no money for
Freedom Passes.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

In message

..net, at 07:52:49 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
thus the train does not need to stop at the relevant station as long as
you're travelling on a participating TOC (i.e. all of them except East
Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

That list is almost as long as a "what did the Romans do for us" list.

It's basically a list of all the TOCs that don't have any trains stopping
twice within the Zones (HEx being an oddity) and thus get no money for
Freedom Passes.

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
.net, at 07:52:49 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
thus the train does not need to stop at the relevant station as long as
you're travelling on a participating TOC (i.e. all of them except East
Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

That list is almost as long as a "what did the Romans do for us" list.

It's basically a list of all the TOCs that don't have any trains stopping
twice within the Zones (HEx being an oddity) and thus get no money for
Freedom Passes.

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.

Why would it be lower? Currently, Oyster users from Watford Junction have
to use the Overground, so LM and SN get no share of their Oyster journeys.
Virgin isn't affected either way, as you're not allowed to travel between
Watford and Euston on Virgin, regardless of ticket type.

In message

, at 09:04:31 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Recliner
remarked:
thus the train does not need to stop at the relevant station as long as
you're travelling on a participating TOC (i.e. all of them except East
Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

That list is almost as long as a "what did the Romans do for us" list.

It's basically a list of all the TOCs that don't have any trains stopping
twice within the Zones (HEx being an oddity) and thus get no money for
Freedom Passes.

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.

Why would it be lower?

Because I believe the ToCs (and TfL) arrange the rules to maximise their
income, and that's therefore the only plausible reason Watford Junction
isn't in Z8.
--
Roland Perry

Recliner wrote:

Why would it be lower? Currently, Oyster users from Watford Junction have
to use the Overground,

No they don't.

so LM and SN get no share of their Oyster journeys.

Yes they do.

Virgin isn't affected either way, as you're not allowed to travel between
Watford and Euston on Virgin, regardless of ticket type.

This bit is correct.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Roland Perry wrote:

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.

As VT don't carry passengers between Euston and Watford (nor should they,
as they'd end up full of commuters) it would change nothing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:04:31 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Recliner remarked:
thus the train does not need to stop at the relevant station as long as
you're travelling on a participating TOC (i.e. all of them except East
Coast, EMT, Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains and Virgin).

That list is almost as long as a "what did the Romans do for us" list.

It's basically a list of all the TOCs that don't have any trains stopping
twice within the Zones (HEx being an oddity) and thus get no money for
Freedom Passes.

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.

Why would it be lower?

Because I believe the ToCs (and TfL) arrange the rules to maximise their
income, and that's therefore the only plausible reason Watford Junction isn't in Z8.

Or even zone 9, like Amersham and Chesham. Funnily enough, Watford Met
station is only in zone 7, and it's about as far out, and only about a mile
away, from the Junction. The main effect of Watford Junction being outside
the zones is that Freedom Passes and other London concessionary tickets
aren't valid to it except on LO, an special fares apply on Oyster (which
are actually very cheap in contra flow).

Neil Williams wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Why would it be lower? Currently, Oyster users from Watford Junction have
to use the Overground,

No they don't.

so LM and SN get no share of their Oyster journeys.

Yes they do.

Yes, you're right. I was confusing Oyster (which is allowed) and Freedom
Passes and other concessionary fares (which aren't). There are also special
Oyster fares, which are good valid when travelling against the flow.


Virgin isn't affected either way, as you're not allowed to travel between
Watford and Euston on Virgin, regardless of ticket type.

This bit is correct.

In message
.
net, at 14:38:09 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life
would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was
in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.

As VT don't carry passengers between Euston and Watford (nor should they,
as they'd end up full of commuters) it would change nothing.

But the passengers we are talking about aren't being carried only to
Watford (if it were inside the zones) but from BZ8 to whatever the next
Virgin-serviced station is, or beyond.
--
Roland Perry

On Wednesday, 28 August 2013 15:51:27 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message

.

net, at 14:38:09 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, Neil Williams

remarked:

Watford Junction being just outside Z8 has a lot to answer for. Life

would be simpler, but I presume ToC revenue would be impacted, if it was

in Z8, which is what geographic common sense would dictate.



As VT don't carry passengers between Euston and Watford (nor should they,

as they'd end up full of commuters) it would change nothing.



But the passengers we are talking about aren't being carried only to

Watford (if it were inside the zones) but from BZ8 to whatever the next

Virgin-serviced station is, or beyond.

--

Roland Perry

Travelcards on Oyster are valid on Virgin (and in theory on Scotrail, but I don't think it saves anything) if combined with a paper ticket from the boundary zone of the Travelcard.