On 05/10/2013 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:
http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

London Overground



Since it opened in 2010—with extensions in 2011 and 2012—the London
Overground changed two things. First, the way that commuters get around the
capital has shifted. In 2008, 33m passengers zipped up and down the
service. Last year 120m did.

Is that a like-for like comparison, or is it comparing (say) just the
inner bit of what was Silverlink with that plus all the pax on what was
LU's East London Line, bits of Southern, etc?

Fully 64% of those who use the network are
getting to and from work. This initially lightened heavily congested trains
on the Southern service(another line running along the route) with 46% of
new passengers swapping from other train services.

Passengers swapping, or the service swapping and the passengers
obviously having to swap too? A few years ago, Southern went from
carrying zero passengers to carrying as many as Connex SC had, and that
was achieved overnight!

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:
http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Surely it's in TfL's interest to do nothing to drum up business for its new
WA routes before it gets and upgrades them? That way, the growth in
ridership under TfL's stewardship will look so much better.

On 2013\10\05 21:47, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Surely it's in TfL's interest to do nothing to drum up business for its new
WA routes before it gets and upgrades them? That way, the growth in
ridership under TfL's stewardship will look so much better.

So TfL's job is to look as if they are serving Londoners rather than to
actually serve Londoners? Sadly you may be right.

On 06/10/2013 18:18, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

It is debateable whether you would publish all 4 in paper format but
making them available on the web should not be unduly difficult.

Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 06/10/2013 22:36, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 22:24:30 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

On 06/10/2013 18:18, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

It is debateable whether you would publish all 4 in paper format but
making them available on the web should not be unduly difficult.

Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

Miaow.

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line
runs out before the place she needed to get to.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 18:18:56 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:
I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

Personally, I think two would be enough. As others have said, I'm not very
interested in who runs which service, unless it affects the ticket I need.

The map I would find most useful is a 'turn up and go' map, showing all
lines and stations with a train at least every 10 minutes throughout the
day. Most people use the tube map as the nearest available approximation
to this, but this misses out some very useful national rail services and
includes some low-frequency tube branches. If the map were popular it
would give an incentive to companies to run more frequent or more regular
services. It should probably exclude anything Oyster isn't valid on.

The other map would be the comprehensive map showing all services, ideally
with some indication of frequencies and journey times.

Colin McKenzie

--
Cycling in the UK is about as safe as walking, and helmets don't make it
safer. Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

On 2013\10\08 20:39, Colin McKenzie wrote:

The map I would find most useful is a 'turn up and go' map, showing all
lines and stations with a train at least every 10 minutes throughout the
day. Most people use the tube map as the nearest available approximation
to this, but this misses out some very useful national rail services and
includes some low-frequency tube branches. If the map were popular it
would give an incentive to companies to run more frequent or more
regular services. It should probably exclude anything Oyster isn't valid
on.

That mightn't be as easy as it might seem. For instance, Waterloo to
Wimbledon might be TUAG, Waterloo to Surbiton might be TUAG, but
Wimbledon to Surbiton might not be. (That's an imaginary example.)

On 2013\10\06 01:12, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 05 Oct 2013 21:40:08 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:
http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

They haven't concluded the detailed negotiations with Greater Anglia
and the DfT yet. They do not know how much budget will transfer nor
what stock, drivers or where the trains will be maintained. The
franchise scope is dependant on knowing what budget there is and there
is still a need to procure the concession operator (possibly the same
one as for Crossrail as the procurement paperwork allowed for that).

The transfer is not until late 2015 anyway and by then TfL loses a
cumulative £1bn in funding due to Government and Boris imposed cuts. I
am not expecting a repeat of the "magic wand" that transformed
Silverlink Metro on the West Anglia lines. All the financial
indicators show it will be a very tough thing to find money for.

Thanks Paul. Have you ever considered writing a transport column for
Private Eye or The Standard or something? There must be vanishingly few
people around who know what you know and can write with such eloquence.

There is still one train a day between Clapton and Tottenham Hale, the
2340 Liverpool Street - Hertford East.

I don't keep old timetables any more but IIRC there was one morning peak call towards London a few years ago.

As well as the issue if local journeys peak Chingford trains are very crowded and often full by St James Street.