"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:31:40 +0200, "tim......"
wrote:



The ultimate would be to reinstate the junction near Coppermill Line
to give a Chingford - Stratford direct service. Unfortunately TfL do
not consider this to be viable despite the huge loadings on the buses
which run between Chingford and Stratford via Walthamstow and Leyton.

I am sure there are many, many other examples across London.

We could both be surprised..

I spent the first 20 something years of my life living with a stones throw
of the Wimbledon - W Croydon line (and the next 10 years having to return
frequently as my parents still lived there)

For the for 15 years it was a half hourly service (which was frequently
cancelled) and then to avoid the cancellations they switched it to single
train operation and a useless (and hard to remember) every 40 minutes (or
was it 45?). And all the time there was last train of just after 6 o'clock.

It was flipping useless service, which you couldn't rely on, so almost
no-one used it!

Look at it now

Trams every 10 minutes (or is it more frequent than that?), well into the
lat evening, loads of newly opened stations and the trams run full to
bursting. It's hard to believe that it's the same line. Unfortunately, I
have no need to go there now as both parents are long dead.

On 2013-10-05 14:27:00 +0000, Recliner said:

Stations with an interchange, such as Highbury & Islington in the
north-east and Canada Water in the south-east, became more
important. Each weekday around 60,000 people travel to and from Highbury &
Islington on Overground services.

Indeed Highbury is a busy place but unlike Canada Water it's an old
station that should have been modernised given the key interchange with
the Victoria Line. At present, the down escalator is out of service too.

E.

On 05/10/2013 18:19, eastender wrote:

On 2013-10-05 14:27:00 +0000, Recliner said:

Stations with an interchange, such as Highbury & Islington in the
north-east and Canada Water in the south-east, became more
important. Each weekday around 60,000 people travel to and from
Highbury & Islington on Overground services.

Indeed Highbury is a busy place but unlike Canada Water it's an old
station that should have been modernised given the key interchange with
the Victoria Line. At present, the down escalator is out of service too.

Thankfully the escalator works should be finished in a couple of weeks
or so (best avoided at peak times till then).

The station had a new entrance open, doubling the size of the gateline,
which is a significant improvement over what there was.

In message of Sat, 5 Oct
2013 23:29:26 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 18:19:34 +0100, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-10-05 14:27:00 +0000, Recliner said:

Stations with an interchange, such as Highbury & Islington in the
north-east and Canada Water in the south-east, became more
important. Each weekday around 60,000 people travel to and from Highbury &
Islington on Overground services.

Indeed Highbury is a busy place but unlike Canada Water it's an old
station that should have been modernised given the key interchange with
the Victoria Line. At present, the down escalator is out of service too.

To be fair a lot of money has been spent to free up space at ticket
hall level at Highbury and the circulation space is a vast improvement
on what went before. I agree the link to the Vic Line / FCC is now
inadequate but it will take a lot of money to add extra escalators,

I don't find signage brilliant either. It includes corridor T junctions
with signage absent until the turn is made. There is probably a lack of
height for clearer signage. OTOH, I think there has been some
improvement in platform displays towards Moorgate.

lifts and wider corridor links. With the proposal to add weekend and
evening services on the GN line into Moorgate in the new TSGN
franchise there will be even more pressure on this interchange.

What proposal? With Google, I managed to find TSGN = Thameslink Great
Northern, but nothing to amplify Paul's allusion. Searching for Moorgate
in a recent consultation document showed nothing relevant.

[At Moorgate, on weekdays until about 2200, signs "Trains to Stevenage"
give access to the Northern Line Ticket Hall from Northern Line
platforms using 2 escalators, rather than 20 steps and an escalator.]


Canada Water is hardly an exemplar of capacity either. Ticket hall to
street is all stairs (ignoring the MIP lift) when escalators are
really needed. The escalator capacity on the Overground / Jubilee

When have you found the stairs inadequate? 35 is a bit long. http://www
..directenquiries.com/stationDiagram.aspx?tab=StationPlanRoute&did=0071-0
011693%2b0071-0025015_P2H&did1=0071-0011687_H2E&did2=0071-0011687_OUT&ci
d=0071-1506208&cid1=0071-1506191&cid2=0071-1506192&fid=0071-0025029&eo=&
xo=&lpid=4284&sr=Y&sh=Y&level=1&dir=r&companyid=74 237&company=Canada%20W
ater
I find it more irritating that drug abuse is given as a reason for
police requesting permanent closure of toilets in the bus station. OTOH,
I think RADAR key access to accessible toilets is still there.

interchange link is overwhelmed off peak - I dread to think how awful
it is in the peak with trains tipping people out every 3-4 minutes. At
some point that needs a radical rethink as it was scoped for the old
East London service and what's there now is a different thing
altogether.

--
Walter Briscoe

In message of Sun, 6 Oct
2013 15:15:48 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 10:07:27 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

What proposal? With Google, I managed to find TSGN = Thameslink Great
Northern, but nothing to amplify Paul's allusion. Searching for Moorgate

That should have been Thameslink Southern Great Northern. ;(

in a recent consultation document showed nothing relevant.

The proposal that is included in the ITT documentation and
consultation results published on the DfT website last week. Just have
a search for DfT Press Releases to see what is proposed for Thameslink
and Great Northern services.

That did not help.


There is also an article on the London Reconnections website.

I found a link to https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultat
ion-on-the-combined-thameslink-southern-and-great-northern-franchise,
where there are 2 links to the same document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...chment_data/fi
le/245205/consultation-responses-tsgn.pdf
and
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...chment_data/fi
le/245203/consultation-responses-tsgn.doc

I searched the latter for Moorgate and found some noise in addition to:
p.44 As part of the TSGN franchise requirements ... There will be
additional services into Moorgate at busy times, evenings and weekends.
p.45 4.87 From December 2015, trains running via Finsbury Park will no
longer be diverted to King's Cross at certain times but terminate at
Moorgate ...
I saw 2 potential reasons: increased social activity in the Old Street
ares; Overground and Crossrail interchange. The Overground already seems
overloaded at Highbury and Islington; after 2118, an extra Crossrail
interchange may well be useful.
OTOH, I can't understand proposals to send a few trains to St Pancras
International (SPI), rather than King's Cross, given the slow
interchange between SPI and London Underground.

I did not penetrate documents as far as finding proposed service
intervals; the current Moorgate 10' service is ineffective for casual
users. Putting the Moorgate - Finsbury Park link back on the Tube map
might be helpful - it was probably there when that service was an
isolated Northern Line service before the 1975 disaster. http://en.wiki
pedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash - similar considerations apply to
Farringdon - Blackfriars.
--
Walter Briscoe

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

I did not penetrate documents as far as finding proposed service
intervals; the current Moorgate 10' service is ineffective for casual
users. Putting the Moorgate - Finsbury Park link back on the Tube map
might be helpful - it was probably there when that service was an
isolated Northern Line service before the 1975 disaster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash - similar
considerations apply to Farringdon - Blackfriars.

Not probably but actually. The Northern City line was part of the
Underground before 1975 so was of course on the map. It continued on it for
some time after the transfer to the GN.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 13:21:59 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Walter Briscoe) wrote:

I did not penetrate documents as far as finding proposed service
intervals; the current Moorgate 10' service is ineffective for casual
users. Putting the Moorgate - Finsbury Park link back on the Tube map
might be helpful - it was probably there when that service was an
isolated Northern Line service before the 1975 disaster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorgate_tube_crash - similar
considerations apply to Farringdon - Blackfriars.

Not probably but actually. The Northern City line was part of the
Underground before 1975 so was of course on the map. It continued on it
for some time after the transfer to the GN.

At least 20 years looking at this website of tube maps through the years.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clivebi...tube.html#1986

The Northern City would seem to have vanished from the map around the
turn of the century.

Sounds about right. Didn't Thameslink in central London go at the same time?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.b...maps/1905.html am I reading Gloster Rd correctly?
Is there a small U that I'm missing? Or is it an abbrev?

On 2013-10-05 22:29:26 +0000, Paul Corfield said:

To be fair a lot of money has been spent to free up space at ticket
hall level at Highbury and the circulation space is a vast improvement
on what went before. I agree the link to the Vic Line / FCC is now
inadequate but it will take a lot of money to add extra escalators,
lifts and wider corridor links. With the proposal to add weekend and
evening services on the GN line into Moorgate in the new TSGN
franchise there will be even more pressure on this interchange.

Yes, opening up the fron of the station is good but as you say it's the
interchange that's the problem - on Friday I was trying to get down to
the Vic amid two train loads arriving at the same time on the
Overground.

Canada Water is hardly an exemplar of capacity either. Ticket hall to
street is all stairs (ignoring the MIP lift) when escalators are
really needed. The escalator capacity on the Overground / Jubilee
interchange link is overwhelmed off peak - I dread to think how awful
it is in the peak with trains tipping people out every 3-4 minutes. At
some point that needs a radical rethink as it was scoped for the old
East London service and what's there now is a different thing
altogether.

I've not been to the surface at Canda Water - is there anything up
there? But the station does seem a lot more spacious. The problem there
is the erratic Jubilee line in my experience.

E.

eastender wrote:
I've not been to the surface at Canda Water - is there
anything up there?

Erm, Canada Water itself, with associated ducks, coots, swans,
water weed etc?

#Paul