On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:
http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Surely it's in TfL's interest to do nothing to drum up business for its new
WA routes before it gets and upgrades them? That way, the growth in
ridership under TfL's stewardship will look so much better.

On 2013\10\05 21:47, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2013\10\05 15:27, Recliner wrote:
From:

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...s-commute-loop

Already TfL has announced that it will take over the
West Anglia route under a similar concession scheme, running commuter
trains from Liverpool Street from 2015.

Why haven't they put the West Anglia lines on the tube map yet, in order
to drum up business before they take it over? The Jubilee extension was
on the tube map at least 5 years before it opened.

Surely it's in TfL's interest to do nothing to drum up business for its new
WA routes before it gets and upgrades them? That way, the growth in
ridership under TfL's stewardship will look so much better.

So TfL's job is to look as if they are serving Londoners rather than to
actually serve Londoners? Sadly you may be right.

On 06/10/2013 18:18, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

It is debateable whether you would publish all 4 in paper format but
making them available on the web should not be unduly difficult.

Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 06/10/2013 22:36, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 22:24:30 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

On 06/10/2013 18:18, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

It is debateable whether you would publish all 4 in paper format but
making them available on the web should not be unduly difficult.

Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

Miaow.

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line
runs out before the place she needed to get to.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 07/10/2013 18:09, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 06/10/2013 22:36, Paul Corfield wrote:
[...]
Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

Miaow.

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line
runs out before the place she needed to get to.

Ouch!

Piccadilly (from Manor House / Turnpike Ln) to Finsbury Park, Vic line
to Vauxhall, strange foreign zug to Wimbledon would have been the best
way to get that far, but one can of course come up with a variety of
suggestions to get further into terra (terror?) incognita, inc via the
strange trains from Victoria or keeping it simpler via a change to
Thameslink at KXSP.

You know all this and much much more of course Mr F, just taking
advantage of the opportunity to stretch my braincell.

The dilemma of how best to present such information is just that, to
concur with Paul's earlier ponderings. I'm not sure what would be best,
but what exists at the moment isn't it (the "London’s Rail & Tube
services" map - the combo-effort of TfL and ATOC and successor to the
London Connections map and TfL's separate variation thereof - rather
looks like and awkward graft on of suburban rail services onto the
familiar Tube map).

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 07/10/2013 18:09, Arthur Figgis wrote:

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line
runs out before the place she needed to get to.

Ouch!

Piccadilly (from Manor House / Turnpike Ln) to Finsbury Park, Vic
line to Vauxhall, strange foreign zug to Wimbledon would have been
the best way to get that far, but one can of course come up with a
variety of suggestions to get further into terra (terror?) incognita,
inc via the strange trains from Victoria or keeping it simpler via a
change to Thameslink at KXSP.

You know all this and much much more of course Mr F, just taking
advantage of the opportunity to stretch my braincell.

The TfL Journey planner agrees with you too. 44 minutes from Turnpike Lane.

The dilemma of how best to present such information is just that, to
concur with Paul's earlier ponderings. I'm not sure what would be
best, but what exists at the moment isn't it (the "London_s Rail &
Tube services" map - the combo-effort of TfL and ATOC and successor
to the London Connections map and TfL's separate variation thereof -
rather looks like and awkward graft on of suburban rail services onto
the familiar Tube map).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 06/10/2013 22:36, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 22:24:30 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

On 06/10/2013 18:18, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'd be tempted to go for a four map approach -

- tube map which just shows LU and DLR.
- TfL rail services map which shows LU, DLR, Overground, Crossrail,
other devolved rail services
- an updated version of the Oyster rail services map which shows all
rail services but with a focus on the terminal they run from.
- a full Rail services map which shows the service patterns run on the
respective networks. This would not be a simple map but it would at
least show the service structure and who runs it. This will be
important with the multiple service patterns through Crossrail and
Thameslink and the residual SWT, Southern and South Eastern routes.

It is debateable whether you would publish all 4 in paper format but
making them available on the web should not be unduly difficult.

Would No2 serve any real transport (rather than political) purpose,
other than perhaps to reassure north Londoners venturing south that
there are some trains which they might be able to understand?

Miaow.

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line runs
out before the place she needed to get to.

perhaps she had heard (and believed) the linking line's nickname :-)

tim

On 08/10/2013 18:00, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:09:36 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

A friend who has lived all her life in Haringey(?) and the City once
phoned me to come and meet her at Wimbledon, where the District Line
runs out before the place she needed to get to.

And? I am sure there are plenty of people who are "lost" if they
venture off their normal routes whether they are used to the "big
railway" or the tube or the buses.

Mainly native Londoners, in my experience. Incomers are more likely to
have figured out a wider area.

You are just repeating your regular "wind up" of those people who live
in "tube land" and who have not learned to swallow the entire Southern
Region (or TOC equivalent) timetable whole ;-)

People seem to worry that they will get confused by having to wait up to
15 min for a train and also have to check where (rather than just which
direction) it is going.

On the Underground that might be an issue for far-Metropolitan Line
Land, but they only person I know from that way used Chiltern and has
moved anyway.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 09/10/2013 01:32, Paul Corfield wrote:

Anyway Mr F you're still playing your game of contrasting the "big
railway" with the "little railway" to try to show that people who
understand the "big railway" are somehow "better".

No I'm not, I'm just pointing out that there really are different
attitudes, which us anoraks shouldn't ignore just because they don't
affect us.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK