In message , at 15:31:12 on Fri, 8 Nov
2013, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:
Plus of course the effort of getting printouts for "expenses
purposes" when all you need do with a paper ticket is hand in the
ticket itself.

Has it escaped your notice that the final exit gate swallows your
paper ticket ?

It has not escaped my notice that many of them don't, eg Kings Cross.

Tickets collected on the train after Peterborough as I remember.

That may have been the case in the past; but the reason, now that Kings
Cross is barriered, is that tickets to London are valid as far as
Moorgate, so you might need to retain them to complete that final leg of
your trip.

And you can always ask the person manning the gates if you can keep the
ticket for expenses purposes. As well as asking for a receipt from the
ticket seller (human or machine) when buying.

I have many receipts, none state details of the tickets bought. Nor is
there any such requirement.

Requirement from whom? It's pretty easy for a sceptical accountant to
lok up what the fare would have been, and check it's the same as the
journey you made.

And If your system depends on asking for something as a favour, how is
it "all you need do" ?

It's not a favour, or at least none of the barrier staff I've ever asked
seem to treat it as such.

First time this made a difference to me was attending a job interview
at the Met Office.

Bracknall station had just been fitted with barriers.

Which I doubt are operating 24x7, but also see above.

The barriers were operating when I arrived which was all that was
necessary to be unable to produce the ticket for expense purposes.

Ony because you allowed it to be swallowed, and didn't have a receipt.

Before mag stripe tickets the the barrier attendant

or no-one at all

And If your system depends on that, how is it "all you need do" ?

When I get to my home station there's not a barrier and never a ticket
collector. So all I have to do is hang onto my ticket.

took your ticket.

It is possible to select a ticket that will never be retained, will
your boss pay the extra ?

No, because there are other ways to prove the expense.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:21:50 on Fri, 8 Nov
2013, d remarked:
As I've mentioned before, this whole bloody nonsense could be solved with
flat fares. They work on the buses so there's no reason for them not to work
on the tube. And anyone who comes out with the complaint about it being unfair,
well I haven't noticed any bus passengers complaining about it.

I think that's because few bus passengers have the stamina to travel the
sort of distances the tube covers.

It could be just like on the continent - a ticket gate to go in and some
turnstiles to come out. Sorted.

On much smaller networks. The closest equivalent is Paris, and even that
only covers their metro (which is entirely within zone 1&2) and RER in
Zone 1 http://parisbytrain.com/paris-transportation-zone-map/
--
Roland Perry

Your reading is right. The file is wrong.
You can buy oyster cards with coinage.
You can top up with notes and credit cards
The machines which sell oyster cards do not accept notes.
I do not recall if they accept credit cards.


Sorry Walter ; any way you look at it that's a crappy poem.
LOROL!

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 13:53:07 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Culturally, we aren't into huge penalties for people caught out.
Because
we always fear the consequences of a false positive.

Except parking, no?

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

In message , at
17:22:59 on Fri, 8 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Culturally, we aren't into huge penalties for people caught out.
Because we always fear the consequences of a false positive.

Except parking, no?

I'm not sure that there are very many people given parking tickets who
don't deserve them. It's more a case of not being able to get away with
illegal parking indefinitely, and being sore when caught out.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 16:37:11 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:21:50 on Fri, 8 Nov
2013, d remarked:
As I've mentioned before, this whole bloody nonsense could be solved with
flat fares. They work on the buses so there's no reason for them not to work
on the tube. And anyone who comes out with the complaint about it being
unfair,
well I haven't noticed any bus passengers complaining about it.

I think that's because few bus passengers have the stamina to travel the
sort of distances the tube covers.

I wasn't suggesting making the tube flat fare the same as the bus. Besides,
its the time taken that matters with regards to operator costs, not the
distance, since fuel is still being burnt in a traffic jam and the bus driver
is still being paid.

It could be just like on the continent - a ticket gate to go in and some
turnstiles to come out. Sorted.

On much smaller networks. The closest equivalent is Paris, and even that

Such as the moscow metro and nyc subway?

Flat fares are used on the majority of metro and trams systems in the world.
It really is about time TfL just bit the bullet. It would make everyones
life simpler. I'd much rather be able to just buy X journeys on my Oyster
rather than bung on some suitably large random sum of money and hope its
enough for what I have planned.

--
Spud

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 08:54:03 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

Your reading is right. The file is wrong.
You can buy oyster cards with coinage.
You can top up with notes and credit cards
The machines which sell oyster cards do not accept notes.
I do not recall if they accept credit cards.


Sorry Walter ; any way you look at it that's a crappy poem.
LOROL!

"There was a young man from Towcester,
Who needed a shiny new Oyster,
He went on the tube, now insists:
What Roland can't believe in exists,
And now he has more cards than he used-tah."

Richard.

In message , at 20:49:35 on
Fri, 8 Nov 2013, Paul Corfield remarked:
As I've mentioned before, this whole bloody nonsense could be solved with
flat fares. They work on the buses so there's no reason for them not to work
on the tube. And anyone who comes out with the complaint about it being unfair,
well I haven't noticed any bus passengers complaining about it.

I think that's because few bus passengers have the stamina to travel the
sort of distances the tube covers.

I think you might be surprised just how far some people do travel by
bus. If you can't afford tube and rail fares but need to travel then
the bus is the answer. I can't quote any stats off the top of my head
but I know from comments on lots of forums from London bus drivers
that they have regular passengers who travel considerable distances to
work and for other purposes. One example, shown on the recent Route
Masters series, was workers from the poorer parts of town travelling
in the last night buses / first day buses to work in the city as
cleaners etc.

I'm sure there are some people like that; if it really is the first/last
buses then several busloads.

Of course, the buses running throughout the day on the same routes will
carry vastly more passengers, typically on much shorter trips.

Lots of routes are themselves quite short, so it's impossible to travel
very large distances (eg Cockfosters to Wimbledon)[1] on one bus.

It could be just like on the continent - a ticket gate to go in and some
turnstiles to come out. Sorted.

On much smaller networks. The closest equivalent is Paris, and even that
only covers their metro (which is entirely within zone 1&2) and RER in
Zone 1 http://parisbytrain.com/paris-transportation-zone-map/

And with far higher levels of fare subsidy.

Of course, and that one fact makes comparisons with many cities overseas
difficult. I know of a city where only 1/3 of the operating costs come
from the fares basket, the rest being a subsidy. And guess what, flat
fares!

LU broadly covers its operating (not investment) expenditure from fares
revenue. I can't see anyone wanting to worsen that financial situation
given huge cuts to TfL's revenue grant by the government.

Indeed.

A London flat fare would probably be something like £5.00 / £3.30 off
peak [1] which is lovely if you live in Uxbridge and want to travel to
Zone 1. It's a nightmare, given LU fares apply to DLR and Overground,
if you are travelling outside of Zone 1. Fares are vastly lower (£1.60
peak / £1.50 off peak) than that for such journeys and represent very
good value for money given free transfer between lines (unlike buses).
That scale of fare increase would be unacceptable to passengers and to
politicians. Whether their protests would outweigh the cheers from the
outer suburbs commuters is a matter of conjecture.

You always hear much more from the losers than the winners.

[1] a complete guess based on roughly averaging fares.

[1] I picked them from a hat. TFL journey planner in fact says you need
to get four buses [299+134+14+93], and it's 2hrs 40 minutes.
--
Roland Perry

Very good. 9/10.

So you have a regular wallet containing banknotes, debit/credit cards
etc, and you need a way to keep your Oyster card separate.

You could do as I do, and have a simple plastic card holder fixed to my
belt by a spring clip. I pull it out to tap on the Oyster reader and it
then winds back to my belt.

As well as my Freedom Pass, it also holds my Senior Railcard and a
couple of others which are carry barcodes rather than RFID. When
travelling outside London I also use it for NR tickets, so that I have
everything to hand for onboard or at gate use.

So I do not need to fumble for my wallet in a crowded station or when
boarding a busy bus. Just pull out, touch and let go.

If you look on eBay you can find secure ones with wire rather than cord.



On 2013-10-31 19:44:59 +0000, d said:

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
Steve Lewis wrote:
You can have 2 RFID cards in a single wallet by putting a credit card-sized
piece of foil between them. You then turn your wallet to present the
appropriate card to the reader.

Someone remind me - arn't we being told RFID is supposed to make life easier?

Requiring multiple wallets or wallets with seperate sections or ****ing around
with bloody tin foil and then having to remember which way up to put the wallet
on the reader for gods sake wouldn't be my definition of "easier".