Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:38:22 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:
I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they
won't
necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 13:01:17 +0000, David Walters
wrote:
I generally agree with you but there are lots of tickets that can
currently only be bought from a ticket office. As an example can I
get
a £2 travelcard for a child travelling with me while I use my Gold
Card
from any machines?

I don't know, but adding them is a simple software matter.

10 years ago people on here rubbished the idea of station ticket
machines issuing tickets to all destinations from that station.
Oops.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:02:52 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
can you do this?

No, but again a simple software matter to add the facility. The data
is there as it can be seen on screen.

AIUI only available with registered cards, which mine is not (and
now never
will be)

Your loss...

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:04:59 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
I wonder how they're going to cope with Oyster problems - the only
thing
I use a tube ticket office for these days. eg, sorting out things
like
"This card has stopped working, please give me a new one and
transfer my
balance". And of course "I don't want this card any more, give me
back
the balance and my deposit please"

1 could be done online or at a ticket machine, again just needs a
process and the software. 2 could up to a certain level be done by a
machine, or at the proposed 5ish tourist centres, or by posting it in
and receiving a refund by BACS.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:50:17 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
(as well as the in station options) German
(/Italian/Belgium/Dutch/Spanish)
systems normally work on the basis of there being a prepaid
"carnet" or
strip ticket (or smart card), which you buy from manned newsagents
(etc), so
the comparison is entirely false, IMHO.

You mean like, say, Oyster?

no Oyster requires you to own a one time purchase card which has limited
supply outlets

German transit systems let you buy a paper ticket for immediate travel, from
thirs party agents


Hamburg doesn't and never has had, btw. It has a fare structure very
similar to London.

Are you sure

Long time since I was there but I'm sure that they had strip cards

tim


Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:02:52 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
can you do this?

No, but again a simple software matter to add the facility. The data is
there as it can be seen on screen.
AIUI only available with registered cards, which mine is not (and
now never
will be)

Your loss...

It wasn't deliberate

tim

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 22/11/2013 10:07, wrote:

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:38:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:
I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets; also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

You can now do both of these at ticket machines.

You can only add less than £5 to Oyster at a ticket stop. I don't use
the tube enough to add that much at a time.

It would still be there for when you next want to use it Colin, as
you well know.

It could be in a year's time as my wife found out.

Anyhow, you can add less than £5 at Tube ticket machines, ditto for
NR ticket machines that do Oyster top ups.

Only with exact change. Sorry, I meant to add that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On 22/11/2013 14:33, Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:38:22 +0000, Mizter T wrote:
I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they
won't necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.

No - Chip and PIN became a standard.

Contactless transactions inherently don't feature online authorisation
with the bank, because there isn't enough time.

I don't think that, for example, basic bank account holders will get CPC
cards because of this issue.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On 22/11/2013 15:10, wrote:

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:
[...]
You can only add less than £5 to Oyster at a ticket stop. I don't use
the tube enough to add that much at a time.

It would still be there for when you next want to use it Colin, as
you well know.

It could be in a year's time as my wife found out.

I don't know what happened with your wife, but the money stays on the card.


Anyhow, you can add less than £5 at Tube ticket machines, ditto for
NR ticket machines that do Oyster top ups.

Only with exact change. Sorry, I meant to add that.

True - though for NR (and LO) ticket machines, one can choose an amount
and receive change.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:03:41 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
no Oyster requires you to own a one time purchase card which has
limited
supply outlets

Now issued at ticket machines and newsagents, no?

German transit systems let you buy a paper ticket for immediate
travel, from
thirs party agents

Not in Hamburg.

Are you sure

Yes.

Long time since I was there but I'm sure that they had strip cards

No, they do not and never did. Some German cities do though.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:04:12 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
It wasn't deliberate

Sounds like there is a problem with your card. Run it down to zero
and get a new one then!

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:20:07 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:
I don't think that, for example, basic bank account holders will
get CPC
cards because of this issue.

Probably not. But I am sure all banks will issue to any standard
debit card eligible customer, as people will generally want them.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:10:11 -0600,
wrote:
It could be in a year's time as my wife found out.

Presently Oyster cards do not time out.

Only with exact change. Sorry, I meant to add that.

That is not how it is intended to be used, and if you want to hit the
system with the high administration costs of doing that, buy a paper
ticket and contribute to them by way of the higher fee.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:24:50 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:
True - though for NR (and LO) ticket machines, one can choose an
amount
and receive change.

Again a simple software mod. I would not allow change (as this is
costly) but would allow exact money.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:57:56 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:04:12 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
It wasn't deliberate

Sounds like there is a problem with your card. Run it down to zero
and get a new one then!

And if all the ticket offices are closed how is he supposed to get his 5 quid
deposit back for the broken one? Send if off in the post and wait a month?

--
Spud

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:35:13 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 13:01:17 +0000, David Walters
wrote:
I generally agree with you but there are lots of tickets that can
currently only be bought from a ticket office. As an example can I
get
a £2 travelcard for a child travelling with me while I use my Gold
Card
from any machines?

I don't know, but adding them is a simple software matter.

10 years ago people on here rubbished the idea of station ticket
machines issuing tickets to all destinations from that station.
Oops.

I have typed a long reply to you based on an earlier post but your
reply above will simply be your response to everything I've raised.
You're clearly happy to see all the offices shut and to put up with
impersonal ways of dealing with problems. Therefore there's no point
in me posting my reply.

He's probably one of those people who thinks because HE never needs a
particular service, no one else ever will either. Sadly this country is
full of people like that, a lot of them in positions of authority.

--
Spud

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
You're clearly happy to see all the offices shut and to put up with
impersonal ways of dealing with problems.

Yes, TBH, I am. I want a public transport system to be efficient,
punctual, fast, reasonably comfortable and cheap. I don't want a
chat, and if I did I wouldn't consider it the taxpayer's role to
subsidise it. I think the German "no staff other than the drivers"
model works excellently and we would do well to adopt it, other than
that we probably need barriers and a few staff on those because of
higher levels of dishonesty.

So I fear we must agree to disagree.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On 22/11/2013 19:32, Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
You're clearly happy to see all the offices shut and to put up with
impersonal ways of dealing with problems.

Yes, TBH, I am. I want a public transport system to be efficient,
punctual, fast, reasonably comfortable and cheap. I don't want a chat,
and if I did I wouldn't consider it the taxpayer's role to subsidise
it. I think the German "no staff other than the drivers" model works
excellently and we would do well to adopt it, other than that we
probably need barriers and a few staff on those because of higher levels
of dishonesty.
So I fear we must agree to disagree.

No-one ever seems to complain that British tram stops are totally
unmanned (unlike Istanbul), and so are escalators (unlike Moscow).


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:59:44 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport
networks need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for
the mainline - and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well
- better to have them out showing how to use the machine next time.

I generally agree with you but there are lots of tickets that can
currently only be bought from a ticket office. As an example can I get
a £2 travelcard for a child travelling with me while I use my Gold Card
from any machines?

Can one get any child tickets from machines? It didn't use to be possible.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article ,
(tim......) wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:17:20 -0600,
wrote:
Are they going to introduce Oyster history printing facilities at
ticket machines then? That can only be obtained from ticket offices
now.

Which is another trick missed with Oyster - such services should have
been machine only from day one.

I agree. You can see the details on screen but not get a permanent
record. The ticket office printers also fade pretty quickly so are far
from permanent.

Will the machine printed ones last any longer?

Since they don't currently exist it's hard to tell.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:50:17 +0100, "tim......"
wrote:
(as well as the in station options) German
(/Italian/Belgium/Dutch/Spanish)
systems normally work on the basis of there being a prepaid "carnet" or
strip ticket (or smart card), which you buy from manned newsagents
(etc), so the comparison is entirely false, IMHO.

You mean like, say, Oyster?

or Ticket Stops?

Hamburg doesn't and never has had, btw. It has a fare structure very
similar to London.

Except for the scale of the system, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Neil Williams" wrote

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 Mizter T wrote:

I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they won't
necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.


The banks still issue signature cards, eg to disabled clients who request
them.

And of course there are the foreigners.

I noticed that supermarket self-checkouts allow for the possibility.


--
Mike D

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 Mizter T wrote:

I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they won't
necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.


The banks still issue signature cards, eg to disabled clients who request them.

And of course there are the foreigners.

I noticed that supermarket self-checkouts allow for the possibility.

Yes, including when they can't read a chip and pin card. Swiping and
signing is nearly always an option at most card readers.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Roland Perry" wrote

Here's an article about that actually mentions use on London Underground
(so perhaps that answers my earlier question, unless the author means
buying tickets from a machine):

http://bankinnovation.net/2011/03/travelex-chips-away-at-us-payment-habits/

date 2011 so probably.

--
Mike D

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:10:11 -0600,
wrote:
It could be in a year's time as my wife found out.

Presently Oyster cards do not time out.

Not the point. See my other post. The tactic of encouraging people t top up
more than they need at the time helps TfL rip people off.

Only with exact change. Sorry, I meant to add that.

That is not how it is intended to be used, and if you want to hit the
system with the high administration costs of doing that, buy a paper
ticket and contribute to them by way of the higher fee.

I go to a Ticket Stop.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 22/11/2013 15:10, wrote:

In article , (Mizter T)
wrote:
[...]
You can only add less than £5 to Oyster at a ticket stop. I don't use
the tube enough to add that much at a time.

It would still be there for when you next want to use it Colin, as
you well know.

It could be in a year's time as my wife found out.

I don't know what happened with your wife, but the money stays on the
card.

She only found out a year later she's been diddled nearly a tenner. Wouldn't
have been possible if her credit was limited to what she needed for her
trip. All this sloppy "add a tenner" helps TfL get away with ripping people
off for their faulty hardware as happened to her. I also object making
interest free loans to TfL for months at a time.

Anyhow, you can add less than £5 at Tube ticket machines, ditto for
NR ticket machines that do Oyster top ups.

Only with exact change. Sorry, I meant to add that.

True - though for NR (and LO) ticket machines, one can choose an
amount and receive change.

Ah! Have never topped up at such machines so didn't realise that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In article
,
(Recliner) wrote:

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 Mizter T wrote:

I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they
won't necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.

The banks still issue signature cards, eg to disabled clients who
request them.

And of course there are the foreigners.

I noticed that supermarket self-checkouts allow for the possibility.

Yes, including when they can't read a chip and pin card. Swiping and
signing is nearly always an option at most card readers.

Can't do anything but Chip and PIN on most railway ticket machines I've come
across.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:11:09 -0600,
wrote:
Except for the scale of the system, surely?

Much lower loadings, but it is quite a large city, and unlike many
European systems it does not operate flat fares, though the zones are
larger than London.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 23:47:07 on Fri, 22
Nov 2013, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:
I'm not sure all banks are issuing them, and even if they do they
won't necessarily issue them to every category of customer.

People said that of Chip and Pin.

The banks still issue signature cards, eg to disabled clients who
request them.

The only time I tried they refused point blank. But then I didn't have a
reason other than "I'd like to have at least one non C&P card".

And of course there are the foreigners.

I noticed that supermarket self-checkouts allow for the possibility.

That's so they can continue to trade if the POS system is down.
--
Roland Perry

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 00:01:05 on Sat, 23
Nov 2013, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:
Here's an article about that actually mentions use on London
Underground
(so perhaps that answers my earlier question, unless the author means
buying tickets from a machine):

http://bankinnovation.net/2011/03/travelex-chips-away-at-us-payment-habits/

date 2011 so probably.

Well spotted. But no doubt such cards with contactless technology in
them would be useful to tourists visiting London (if TfL can get over
the Electron/Solo effect).
--
Roland Perry

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 17:11:09
on Fri, 22 Nov 2013, remarked:
I generally agree with you but there are lots of tickets that can
currently only be bought from a ticket office. As an example can I get
a £2 travelcard for a child travelling with me while I use my Gold Card
from any machines?

Can one get any child tickets from machines? It didn't use to be possible.

A good question. Do resident children have some sort of "toddler Freedom
Pass" these days? When I tried to buy tube tickets for my children on a
visit to London a few years ago I couldn't, because the machines
wouldn't sell them and the ticket office at the station was unmanned.
--
Roland Perry

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:31:32 -0600,
wrote:

[Mizter T:]
There's no suggestion whatsoever that Oyster cards are to disappear
from the scene. So Oyster cards should continue to be available from
shops as they are now - and they're already available for vending
from Tube ticket machines (at least one machine in each station).

Really? I've never noticed one at East |Putney. And the ticket stop outside
shuts long before the end of service.

If there isn't one, then that will be fixed before 2015 (the year!).

I can't help but think that a lack of Tube ticket offices at main NR
termini and other arrival points (Heathrow, VCS etc) just isn't very
visitor friendly though - however much TfL might try and push Visitor
Oyster cards to visitors before they arrive in London, people are
just going to turn up and expect to sort it on arrival. (CPCs may be
a solution for some of those visitors, but not all.)

I heard there was a list somewhere of ticket offices that *are* to
remain open. A few stations stand out, surely: airports, King's
Cross, Oxford Circus, Victoria?

Agree. I found Berlin a little bewildering for visitors to get going on the
U & S Bahn.

The machines could be better but all you need to remember is that most
of Berlin is in zones A and B. The new airport is in C. Some places
have their own zones A, B and C within the global zone C, like
Potsdam. I'm beginning to see your point! A weekly/monthly ticket
has an odd name designed to confuse visitors (like the Swiss "tariff
community tickets" screen option that only sells to anoraks). Once
you've done all that, the transport is good quality, although the lack
of money for the bus service particularly has to show an effect soon.

Richard.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 07:53:28 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:38:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:
I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets;
also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

You can now do both of these at ticket machines.

How do you buy an Oyster card at a ticket machine?

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 11:44:05 on
Sat, 23 Nov 2013, Richard remarked:
The machines could be better but all you need to remember is that most
of Berlin is in zones A and B. The new airport is in C.

30 minutes from the centre of the City.

It's a shame it doesn't show up here though:

http://www.bvg.de/index.php/de/binar...80593/file/1-1
--
Roland Perry

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 12:59:36 on
Sat, 23 Nov 2013, Scott remarked:

How do you buy an Oyster card at a ticket machine?

Apparently (although I've not tried it) at least one machine at all but
one TfL station will now vend you an Oyster as well as a paper ticket.

No doubt it will be "unregistered" as collecting all that data with a
huge queue behind you would be an issue.
--
Roland Perry

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

"Roland Perry" wrote

A good question. Do resident children have some sort of "toddler Freedom
Pass" these days? When I tried to buy tube tickets for my children on a
visit to London a few years ago I couldn't, because the machines wouldn't
sell them and the ticket office at the station was unmanned.

Children aged 5 - 10 travel free on London Buses, and free on London
Underground if accompanied by a fare-paying or Freedom Pass holding adult.
Children of this age also travel free unaccompanied if they hold an Oyster
Photocard - this is available to non-resident children as well as London
residents.

Children aged 11 - 15 travel at child fare, but need an Oyster Photocard to
obtain the Oyster child fares (which are much lower than cash Child fares).
It does appear that there are some child fares only available from ticket
offices (e.g the £2 Day Travelcard available to children accompanying a Gold
Card or Network Card holder.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx and click on therelevant tabs.

Peter

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:59:36 +0000, Scott
wrote:
How do you buy an Oyster card at a ticket machine?

Google it. The design of the narrow machines has been modified to
allow the issue of Oyster cards.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:04:59 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:11:38PM +0000, Mizter T wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25025888

Blimey - I knew fewer ticket offices is the general direction of things,
but wasn't expecting quite such a radical proposal. The pill is of
course sweetened by the plan for 24hr running on some Tube lines, which
in its own right is most welcome.

I wonder how they're going to cope with Oyster problems - the only thing
I use a tube ticket office for these days. eg, sorting out things like
"This card has stopped working, please give me a new one and transfer my
balance". And of course "I don't want this card any more, give me back
the balance and my deposit please"

I can see another problem, for those who want to have a Senior
Railcard registered on their Oyster card. It's hard to see how that
could be done conveniently at a vending machine.

--
John Ray

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

On Saturday, 23 November 2013 08:56:21 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
When I tried to buy tube tickets for my children on a

visit to London a few years ago I couldn't, because the machines

wouldn't sell them and the ticket office at the station was unmanned.

Was it open and unmanned or closed and unmanned?
When the ticket office is open it is not possible to buy child tickets from th machines.
However, staff sometimes wander away from their position to make tea, do some banking etc.

Proposal - every Tube ticket office to close by 2015
 

In message , at 18:30:10 on
Sat, 23 Nov 2013, John Ray remarked:
I can see another problem, for those who want to have a Senior
Railcard registered on their Oyster card. It's hard to see how that
could be done conveniently at a vending machine.

Ditto for the "student" railcard.
--
Roland Perry