On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 07:50:34 -0000, "Jim Hawkins"
wrote:


"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:52:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 13/03/14 20:46, Jim Hawkins wrote:
"Peter Able" stuck@home wrote in message
...

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 10:51:19 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:35:44 on Tue, 11
Mar
2014, Graeme Wall remarked:

B----y hell, he wasn't that old. 52 according to the BBC

Mortality rate for a man that age is low, but not insignificant;
around
7% of men will die in their 50's.

He didn't, perhaps, have the healthiest of lifestyles...


Has it been revealed what he died of ?


They announced a heart attach quite early on. Now that is pre autopsy,
but heart attacks aren't normally mis-diagnosed that much, surely?


Not by doctors. Journalists could do a lot better.

Some poisons (e.g. potassium chloride) can cause similar signs but the
circumstances in which someone is found will often give the game away.
Also some poisons are themselves medicines with a rather thin line
between a medicinal dose and a lethal dose cough!Shipman/cough!;
one person's daily dose of heroin is another's first and last dose of
diamorphine, it has been alleged that George V was helped on his way
with morphine and cocaine.

On 14/03/14 07:50, Jim Hawkins wrote:

Not by doctors.

Is it not still the case that around 40% of all medical diagnoses are
found to be wrong in autopsies?

Ian

On 14/03/14 08:29, Charles Ellson wrote:
it has been alleged that George V was helped on his way
with morphine and cocaine.

As are lots of people - well, with morphine anyway - and often by
doctors who would profess opposition to assisted dying. The peculiar
claim about George V was that his doctors bumped him off a wee bit early
so that his death would appear first in the morning papers, which were
more prestigious than the evening ones.

Bugger Bognor.

Ian

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:29:33 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
Some poisons (e.g. potassium chloride) can cause similar signs but the

Actually it seems to be a bit of a myth that KCl is a poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride

"Orally, potassium chloride is toxic in excess; the LD50 is around 2.5 g/kg
(meaning that a lethal dose for 50% of people weighing 75 kg (165 lb) is about
190 g (6.7 ounces)). However, this is not far from oral toxicity of sodium
chloride (table salt), of 3.75 g/kg"

As for Bob Crow who I haven't commented on yet - I'm tired of this "'e was
a good ole geezer 'n' looked after 'is own" schtick. Thats what they said about
the Krays. He might have loved his mum and come out with a few well timed
wisecracks, but this was the **** who frequently brought London to a halt so
his already overpaid bone idle members could get even more money for doing sod
all, plus he was an unreconstructed communist who idolised that piece of scum
Chavez. Also looking at the state of the fat sod in pictures he only had
himself to blame for his heart attack.

I'm sure his family will miss him but I for one won't. Perhaps without him
some sensible negotiations can take place at TfL in the future.

--
Spud

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 16:08:52 +0000, The Real Doctor
wrote:

On 14/03/14 07:50, Jim Hawkins wrote:

Not by doctors.

Is it not still the case that around 40% of all medical diagnoses are
found to be wrong in autopsies?

Some of it appears to be what is meant by "wrong". Someone carrying
out an autopsy has the advantage of being able to have a good poke
around and get things tested while e.g. a GP is limited to what can be
detected from outside by mostly non-destructive means. While this can
often find something undiagnosed or missed/ignored (and not
necessarily relevant for consideration) it won't always change the
substantive cause of death.

A Grauniad article from 2012 :-
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...-four-patients
refers to a study in England and Wales finding that "In 40% of the
cases where there were mistakes" (possibly tracing back to the same
source as yours) but some were "Chicken and Egg" cases as with the
pneumonia v. lung cancer example in the article and others concerned
whether or not certain diagnoses which were correct should also have
been reported to a Coroner.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:05:27 GMT, d wrote:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:29:33 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
Some poisons (e.g. potassium chloride) can cause similar signs but the

Actually it seems to be a bit of a myth that KCl is a poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride

"Orally, potassium chloride is toxic in excess; the LD50 is around 2.5 g/kg
(meaning that a lethal dose for 50% of people weighing 75 kg (165 lb) is about
190 g (6.7 ounces)). However, this is not far from oral toxicity of sodium
chloride (table salt), of 3.75 g/kg"

As for Bob Crow who I haven't commented on yet - I'm tired of this "'e was
a good ole geezer 'n' looked after 'is own" schtick.

That is an awfully yiddish word, :-)

Thats what they said about
the Krays. He might have loved his mum and come out with a few well timed
wisecracks, but this was the **** who frequently brought London to a halt so
his already overpaid bone idle members could get even more money for doing sod
all, plus he was an unreconstructed communist who idolised that piece of scum
Chavez. Also looking at the state of the fat sod in pictures he only had
himself to blame for his heart attack.

I'm sure his family will miss him but I for one won't. Perhaps without him
some sensible negotiations can take place at TfL in the future.

But, one hopes you would agree that there is a difference between
constructive criticism, and dancing on someone's grave.

Anyone who is supporter of the PLO is hardly likely to have my
support. Just the same one maintains a sense of dignity and decorum
at the news of anyone's demise.

Moreover, the problem on London's rail transit system was not Bob
Crow; it was the people who voted him into office.

Fortunately for the rest of us, the driverless tube train is on the
horizon.

--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 13:45:17 -0700, Aurora wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:05:27 GMT, d wrote:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:29:33 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
Some poisons (e.g. potassium chloride) can cause similar signs but the

Actually it seems to be a bit of a myth that KCl is a poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride

"Orally, potassium chloride is toxic in excess; the LD50 is around 2.5 g/kg
(meaning that a lethal dose for 50% of people weighing 75 kg (165 lb) is about
190 g (6.7 ounces)). However, this is not far from oral toxicity of sodium
chloride (table salt), of 3.75 g/kg"

As for Bob Crow who I haven't commented on yet - I'm tired of this "'e was
a good ole geezer 'n' looked after 'is own" schtick.

That is an awfully yiddish word, :-)

Thats what they said about
the Krays. He might have loved his mum and come out with a few well timed
wisecracks, but this was the **** who frequently brought London to a halt so
his already overpaid bone idle members could get even more money for doing sod
all, plus he was an unreconstructed communist who idolised that piece of scum
Chavez. Also looking at the state of the fat sod in pictures he only had
himself to blame for his heart attack.

I'm sure his family will miss him but I for one won't. Perhaps without him
some sensible negotiations can take place at TfL in the future.

But, one hopes you would agree that there is a difference between
constructive criticism, and dancing on someone's grave.

Anyone who is supporter of the PLO is hardly likely to have my
support. Just the same one maintains a sense of dignity and decorum
at the news of anyone's demise.

Moreover, the problem on London's rail transit system was not Bob
Crow; it was the people who voted him into office.

Fortunately for the rest of us, the driverless tube train is on the
horizon.

Best place for it ?

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 13:45:17 -0700
Aurora wrote:
I'm sure his family will miss him but I for one won't. Perhaps without him
some sensible negotiations can take place at TfL in the future.

But, one hopes you would agree that there is a difference between
constructive criticism, and dancing on someone's grave.

Crow like a lot of the left wasn't too put off about dancing on Thatchers grave
so if someone wants to dance on his - and that halfwit romanticising socialist
toff Tony Benn's - then I'd wish them good luck.

Moreover, the problem on London's rail transit system was not Bob
Crow; it was the people who voted him into office.

Its not voting him into office thats the problem - its supporting almost
every idiotic strike he came up with that ****es me off about LU drivers.
These muppets earn 54K for a job thats to all intents and purposes
is just pushing a lever backwards and forwards. And on the automatic lines
pretty much all they have to do to earn that money is stay awake between
stations. Bus drivers do a much more stressful job and get half the pay.

Fortunately for the rest of us, the driverless tube train is on the
horizon.

Much as I'd like to see the drivers collecting their P45s en-masse, I still
want to see staff on board a tube in case of emergencies and the best place
for them is up the front on deep level lines where's theres no way to walk
alongside the train. So I'm not sure Boris's idea of driverless trains is
really going to work.

--
Spud