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Queenstown Road
I had the occasion to use this museum piece today, changing onto the
Victoria to London Bridge service at Battersea Park. When was a single penny last spent on Queenstown Road. The sign above the abandoned ticket office window read 'Southern' and the sign outside on street level read 'London and South Western Railway'. The tiles on the staircase must date from at least before WWII, perhaps older. Why is this in such a sorry state? Thanks for any comments, Martin. |
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"Martin J" wrote:
When was a single penny last spent on Queenstown Road. The sign above the abandoned ticket office window read 'Southern' and the sign outside on street level read 'London and South Western Railway'. The station was repainted some time in the 1990s - it was at this time that the old railway company names reappeared. -- MetroGnome ~~~~~~~~~~ |
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The sign above the abandoned ticket
office window read 'Southern' and the sign outside on street level read 'London and South Western Railway'. I hope you're not suggesting these should be ripped out and replaced with "South West Trains" (until the franchise changes). There's no harm in a bit of history being retained. That's not saying the station should not be refurbished! Or, even worse, replaced with an ugly new facile logo I have seen defacing stations around London: "Overground Network". I have to confess, the first few times I saw this ugly"ON" logo I thought it was an advert for a new mobile 'phone company (e.g. "Orange Network")! "Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever they happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next week) think we are. And, they are spening MONEY on this idiocy! Marc. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... "Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever they happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next week) think we are. And, they are spening MONEY on this idiocy! Except that ON is actually a TfL initiative that has been foisted upon the train operators in some parts of the capital. |
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In message , Mait001
writes "Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever they happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next week) think we are. Maybe they are Wombles fans? -- Roland Perry |
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"Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever they
happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next week) think we are. And, they are spening MONEY on this idiocy! Except that ON is actually a TfL initiative that has been foisted upon the train operators in some parts of the capital. In which case, even more idiotic, and another legacy of the fools that vote for having a Mayor of London and all the munificence that this has brought. Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! Marc. |
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In message , Mait001
writes [..] Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! In some cases, yes! (Seeing that much of the Underground is over ground) -- Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no. |
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Mait001 wrote:
Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! Regrettably, in many cases, yes. There are people who still think that BR is running the national railway network. |
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In message , Mait001
writes Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! ON (the Overground Network) doesn't refer to the whole of the train system that is above ground. It is a specific network of high-frequency, metro-style services with an off-peak frequency of at least four trains an hour. Currently it is being piloted on four South-London routes (including our local Richmond line). To some extent yes, it is a marketing exercise, but the ON also includes better passenger information, station security and upgraded station facilities - all welcome improvements. -- Paul Terry |
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"Paul Terry" wrote in message ... To some extent yes, it is a marketing exercise, but the ON also includes better passenger information, station security and upgraded station facilities - all welcome improvements. Having seen some of the improvements taking place at Clapham Junction in the past few weeks, plus the enhanced security presence, I must agree. However, whatever public information is provided I fear that many of the imbeciles that pass for passengers will still completely ignore them (Platform 1 at East Croydon on Wednesday, PIS showing "16:04 London Victoria, calling at Clapham Junction" approximately six feet away, passenger to passing member of staff: "Is this the platform for Clapham Junction?")! I just wonder how some of these people would have coped fifteen years ago, when there was little more than a paper timetable at most stations (and often not that!). |
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Mait001 wrote:
Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! Regrettably, in many cases, yes. There are people who still think that BR is running the national railway network. Just how does a sign stating "Overground Network" which does not, as far as I can see exist as an entity, help that situation then? Marc. |
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Having seen some of the improvements taking place at Clapham Junction in the
past few weeks, What improvements would those be? Like having more than one ticket window open at the Grant Road entrance on a Monday morning, so that the queue doesn't go over 25 or 30 people? Like ensuring that the dripping water does not damage one's clothes and head when entering the station or using the tunnel? Like having display boards in places that actaully have some use, such as that excellent invisible board at the South end of the tunnel that shows that the next Waterloon train will be on one of the Windsor platforms, thus saving one having to walk the whole way along to platform 10? Oh yes, I have noticed all of these wonderful improvements and applaud Railtrack (or whoever now runs that apology for a station) for their genuince concern for what really matters to passengers. Marc. |
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Mait001
writes Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! ON (the Overground Network) doesn't refer to the whole of the train system that is above ground. It is a specific network of high-frequency, metro-style services with an off-peak frequency of at least four trains an hour. Currently it is being piloted on four South-London routes (including our local Richmond line). To some extent yes, it is a marketing exercise, but the ON also includes better passenger information, station security and upgraded station facilities - all welcome improvements. -- Paul Terry Well, as someone who travels between Waterloo and Clapham Junction or Wandsworth Town several times a week, this is the first time I have heard of this "exercise". All I had previously noticed were the signs - yesterday at Wandsworth Town for the first time. I have not, however, noticed a jot of extra better information or station security at Wandsworth Town, and as for upgraded station facilities - there are 4 benches at Wandsworth Town - which is several less than there were 20 years ago. That is ALL that passes for "station facilities". So, not only is it merely a facile "marketing exercise", it is actually a deception. Marc. |
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Mait001 wrote:
Mait001 wrote: Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! Regrettably, in many cases, yes. There are people who still think that BR is running the national railway network. Just how does a sign stating "Overground Network" which does not, as far as I can see exist as an entity, help that situation then? Dunno, but obviously someone does. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message
... There are people who still think that BR is running the national railway network. Just how does a sign stating "Overground Network" which does not, as far as I can see exist as an entity, help that situation then? It is normal for any elected body which funds anything to erect a sign bearing its logo. ON has been used by the Mayor as a sort of logo, so the purpose of the sign is to let people know that their gratitude for improvements should not go to the SRA or SWT but to the Mayor. This is important when people are deciding whether to re-elect him. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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Just how does a sign stating "Overground Network" which does not, as far as I can see exist as an entity, help that situation then? It is normal for any elected body which funds anything to erect a sign bearing its logo. ON has been used by the Mayor as a sort of logo, so the purpose of the sign is to let people know that their gratitude for improvements should not go to the SRA or SWT but to the Mayor. This is important when people are deciding whether to re-elect him. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped 1. I thought that Ken was using (or abusing, I should say) the Roundel for all of his transport ventures - including on London taxis. This new logo is a waste of space, money and effort and is completely meaningless. 2. There is nothing that I can see on the logo (on those places I have seen it - admittedly not that many yet) which connects it with the Mayor of London or anyone else. 3. What improvements? The presence of a meaningless sign - oh, yes, of course. Eternally grateful - thanks Ken. 4. I will CERTAINLY be using Ken's waste of MY money as one of (many) criteria when I vote against him. Marc. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message
... 3. What improvements? The presence of a meaningless sign - oh, yes, of course. Eternally grateful - thanks Ken. 4. I will CERTAINLY be using Ken's waste of MY money as one of (many) criteria when I vote against him. As with most or all of Ken's innovations, the idea of branding certain routes as the "South London Overground" has been around for a few years and precedes his stint in office. The full idea involved cutting certain branches off, a la Bromley North, and running frequent (4-6tph) shuttles on the branches and frequent repetitive services on the lines into London. I don't know how much of the plan still stands, and how much has been shelved. I know that some of the people of Wallington reacted furiously when they were told that instead of having 2tph to London Bridge and 2 tph to Victoria, they were going to get 4tph to one or the other, so maybe the plan to tube-ise the network has been cut down, perhaps to the point where the signage is advertising a product that doesn't exist... or maybe we are still in the early stages. Either way, Ken is acting on the advice of the transport professionals rather than just coming up with money-wasting schemes off his own head. There are reasons to vote against Ken, but these particular ON signs aren't one of them. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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In article , Mait001
writes Or, even worse, replaced with an ugly new facile logo I have seen defacing stations around London: "Overground Network". I have to confess, the first few times I saw this ugly"ON" logo I thought it was an advert for a new mobile 'phone company (e.g. "Orange Network")! Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood over large parts of continental Europe; a short term, easy to read on signs. -- Clive Page |
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"Mait001" wrote in message
... 3. What improvements? The presence of a meaningless sign - oh, yes, of course. Eternally grateful - thanks Ken. 4. I will CERTAINLY be using Ken's waste of MY money as one of (many) criteria when I vote against him. As with most or all of Ken's innovations, the idea of branding certain routes as the "South London Overground" has been around for a few years and precedes his stint in office. The full idea involved cutting certain branches off, a la Bromley North, and running frequent (4-6tph) shuttles on the branches and frequent repetitive services on the lines into London. I don't know how much of the plan still stands, and how much has been shelved. I know that some of the people of Wallington reacted furiously when they were told that instead of having 2tph to London Bridge and 2 tph to Victoria, they were going to get 4tph to one or the other, so maybe the plan to tube-ise the network has been cut down, perhaps to the point where the signage is advertising a product that doesn't exist... or maybe we are still in the early stages. Either way, Ken is acting on the advice of the transport professionals rather than just coming up with money-wasting schemes off his own head. There are reasons to vote against Ken, but these particular ON signs aren't one of them. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped John, I always bow to your undoubtedly superior knowledge of plans for London's transport. This is certainly the first I have heard of this scheme and, as I have said, the only manifestation of it has been the signs and nothing else! However, in the case of the service (or lack of it to Wandsworth Town), it is not only a joke but a fraud if the idea is to have 4 trains per hour! Off-peak, the service may be 4 per-hour, but in evening peaks so often have I arrived at Waterloo in recent years, to find either no trains listed to stop at Wandsworth Town, or a 30 or 40 minute wait till the next one, that I now usually take the first train to Clapham Junction, and then get a bus. Personally, I believe that actions speak louder than window-dressing, and I'd prefer a decent service to some expensive publicity merchant's idea of a new snazzy logo that represents nothing. Marc. |
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In message , Mait001
writes However, in the case of the service (or lack of it to Wandsworth Town), it is not only a joke but a fraud if the idea is to have 4 trains per hour! Off-peak, the service may be 4 per-hour, but in evening peaks so often have I arrived at Waterloo in recent years, to find either no trains listed to stop at Wandsworth Town, or a 30 or 40 minute wait till the next one, that I now usually take the first train to Clapham Junction, and then get a bus. There are six trains an hour timetabled in the evening peak (4 via Mortlake and 2 Hounslow loopers), although the service interval is a bit uneven with a 15-minute gap after the 17:02 - probably due to the pathing of the fast Windsor trains. I can't say I have noticed cancellations or long delays on many occasions over the last 10 years or so, although most services are very crowded in the evening peaks. (I don't travel that line very often these days, but my partner does and is rarely delayed). -- Paul Terry |
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Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood
over large parts of continental Europe; a short term, easy to read on signs. -- Clive Page Yes, let's change our official language to German as well! No doubt it's what our European masters have in store for us at some future date..... Marc. |
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There are six trains an hour timetabled in the evening peak
I too believe in Father Christmas. although the service interval is a bit uneven with a 15-minute gap after the 17:02 I have often arrived around 6.30 or 7p.m to find not a SINGLE train listed to stop at W.T. And, cancellations of even those listed, when we are all already standing jammed like sardines on platform 15 to 19, are too often to count. The other day, we were actually on the train and an undubtedly desperate guard announced that we would all be ready to go "whenever the driver puts in an appearance". 15 minutes later (after everyone except me had left - I was too fagged to get off and walk the whole aay back from the front of the train to another platform) we did eventually set off. Marc. |
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"Clive Page" wrote in message
... Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood over large parts of continental Europe; But not in England! Using the green German S logo is a good idea, but it should stand for something English, like "The Suburban". -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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In message , Mait001
writes There are six trains an hour timetabled in the evening peak I too believe in Father Christmas. You may do. When I travel on the SWT line from Waterloo to Mortlake or Barnes Bridge (both services stopping at Wandsworth Town, although often few folk alight there) I generally find the service excellent. I admit I do sometimes regret forgetting the 15-minute service gap after the 17.02 - but thereafter the frequency is mostly 7-8 minutes. I have often arrived around 6.30 or 7p.m to find not a SINGLE train listed to stop at W.T. I don't travel outward that late in the evening peak, but I am still surprised given the good service intervals. And, cancellations of even those listed, when we are all already standing jammed like sardines on platform 15 to 19, are too often to count. I don't travel often enough to count, but my partner only recalls one serious incident in the last year (at West London junction just before Clapham last month - even then it would have been quicker to wait it out for 30 minutes than take the tube/bus to these parts!) I don't know if your late travelling time in the evening peak leaves you open to more delay problems than others, but I can only say that I find the Overground Network between Barnes and Waterloo infinitely quicker and more pleasant than being thrown around on our (albeit very frequent) bus services to Hammersmith and then often suffering near-suffocation and standing room only into the West End on the Piccadilly. The much-despised ON can take as little as 20 minutes to the West Wnd from here - with excellent refreshment facilities at Barnes if there should be a short wait - and with almost always a seat on town-bound services (often several hundred free seats off-peak, which I believe is a main part of the ON initiative to improve). I'm sorry if you don't find the same - I have to admit that I sometimes find it annoying that so many trains on the two lines I use stop at Wandsworth Town, given the few people that alight there - but such "give and take" is surely necessary on London suburban services? The other day, we were actually on the train and an undubtedly desperate guard announced that we would all be ready to go "whenever the driver puts in an appearance". 15 minutes later (after everyone except me had left - Do you think the others might have spotted a better option? I was too fagged to get off and walk the whole aay back from the front of the train to another platform) we did eventually set off. That's sad. Many people using a tube journey with a change (or a bus/tube interchange) often walk further than the length of a few carriages every day. Do you think that walking is bad for you? -- Paul Terry |
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On 08 Feb 2004 16:52:31 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood over large parts of continental Europe; a short term, easy to read on signs. -- Clive Page Yes, let's change our official language to German as well! No doubt it's what our European masters have in store for us at some future date..... You might want to wipe the froth from your mouth when you've finished your rant.... -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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"John Rowland" wrote in message
... "Clive Page" wrote in message ... Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood over large parts of continental Europe; But not in England! Using the green German S logo is a good idea, but it should stand for something English, like "The Suburban". 'the sub' nice and snappy like 'the tube' logo: http://images.google.de/images?hl=de...=N&tab=wi&meta sort of southern green too! -- Mark |
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"Mark Townend" wrote in message ... "John Rowland" wrote in message ... "Clive Page" wrote in message ... Wouldn't it be better to call it the S-bahn? It's a term understood over large parts of continental Europe; But not in England! Using the green German S logo is a good idea, but it should stand for something English, like "The Suburban". 'the sub' nice and snappy like 'the tube' logo: http://images.google.de/images?hl=de...=N&tab=wi&meta sort of southern green too! or 'swiftway' to avoid 'subway' confusion misery for American visitors -- Mark |
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"Mark Townend" wrote in message
... "Mark Townend" wrote in message ... http://images.google.de/images?hl=de...=N&tab=wi&meta sort of southern green too! Thanks, that is the green S I had in mind or 'swiftway' "The Swift"... I *like* that. It's making a promise. It's making a promise they won't use 313s. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
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On 7 Feb 2004, Mait001 wrote:
Just how does a sign stating "Overground Network" which does not, as far as I can see exist as an entity, help that situation then? It is normal for any elected body which funds anything to erect a sign bearing its logo. ON has been used by the Mayor as a sort of logo, so the purpose of the sign is to let people know that their gratitude for improvements should not go to the SRA or SWT but to the Mayor. This is important when people are deciding whether to re-elect him. 1. I thought that Ken was using (or abusing, I should say) the Roundel for all of his transport ventures - including on London taxis. This new logo is a waste of space, money and effort and is completely meaningless. I reckon it's a dastardly ploy - he tags the scheme with this non-TfL logo, then ensures it goes distastrously wrong, then pins it all on the ToCs or something, and so gets more power over the network! tom -- Michael Jackson had that idea back in the 80s. There was even a ride at Disneyland. |
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Curiously, reiseauskunft.bahn.de shows 10 departures from Wandsworth
Town between 6 and 7pm which are *definitely* timetabled to run Mondays to Fridays. Whether or not they actually run, I couldn't say... Cya, Barry Is that Northbound, Southbound, or both? Marc. |
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Is that Northbound, Southbound, or both? Sorry...Should've clarified...That's in both, which should give 5 trains in each direction. Cya, Barry Thanks! Marc. |
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"John Rowland" wrote the
following in: "The Swift"... I *like* that. It's making a promise. It's making a promise they won't use 313s. Are 313s particularly bad for reasons other than the fact that their interior decoration promotes feelings of deep despair? Out of interest, what are these reasons? -- message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law. The Hutton Report is a whitewash! Long live the BBC! Crime is confusing. |
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No doubt it's what our European masters have in store for us at
some future date..... See what I mean? -- message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law. The Hutton Report is a whitewash! Long live the BBC! Crime is confusing. Well, who would have believed, in 1973 that the following would be in store for us within a few decades: - criminal prosecutions for selling vegetables in Imperial units - single currency (admittedly, we dont have it yet, but it will come sooner or later) - loss of most of our fishing grounds - surrender of our agricultural policy - European Courts overruling purely domestic law - trans-European arrest warrants - railway infrastructure separate from operations (a Directive requirement that ensures even if we wanted it, the railways can never again be united in ownership) - abolition of passport controls - a European anthem (by Beethoeven, a..... German) - a European flag - a Europe day - replacement of national embassies with European ones - European foreign policy - majority voting on a whole host of purely national issues and many many others which on this fine sunny afternoon I have no more time to list. Marc. P.S. Do you really believe the Hutton Report was a whitewash, and that the B.B.C. were not wholly deserving of criticism for (at best) slipshod reporting and controls and (at worst) downright dishonesty in the form of Mr. Gilligan's (now admitted) exaggeration and unfounded source? I am no supporter of Blur, and I wholeheartedly support the best traditions of public service broadcasting, but on this one issue, I am afraid, Hutton was absolutely right M. |
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I have often arrived around 6.30 or 7p.m to find not a SINGLE train listed to stop at W.T. You have been unlucky then! My train always stops at Wandsworth Town (2ph) and the equivalent goiung via Richmond does so also. Therefore at least 4tph - peak and offpeak. What is your normal period from Waterloo then? Marc. |
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"Overground Network" - just how stupid do the operators (whoever
they happen to be this week, as opposed to last week and next week) think we are. And, are spening MONEY on this idiocy! Except that ON is actually a TfL initiative that has been foisted upon the train operators in some parts of the capital. In which case, even more idiotic, and another legacy of the fools that vote for having a Mayor of London and all the munificence that this has brought. Are we, passengers (sorry, customers) so stupid as to be unable to distinguish between the Underground and overground?! As you almost certainly know, the point of ON is not to distinguish it from the London Underground, but to show that the station has at least 4 trains per hour to / from central London (i.e. that it has a 'metro' service, much like the Underground - hence the name). This is very useful to me because when I'm at a station and I can see the ON logo I know that I won't be standing at the station for 30 minutes waiting for a train. If I don't see the logo I will check the timetables and if necessary take a bus to a different station. I for one think it's a very good idea from the Greater London Authority, and it is one of the many reasons that I will be voting for Ken in the upcoming elections. Matt Ashby www.fornogoodreason.org.uk |
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