In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 13:32:34
on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on using
your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This includes
all National Railcard discounts."
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
13:32:34 on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on using
your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This includes
all National Railcard discounts."

I thought so but wonder why. If the processing is all in the back office why
can't railcards be associated with the accounts there? Or is that another
one of your apparently simple developments we'll have to wait for? :-)

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 14:24:48
on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more information
about both TfL's position on this issue and also war stories from
disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on using
your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This includes
all National Railcard discounts."

I thought so but wonder why. If the processing is all in the back office why
can't railcards be associated with the accounts there? Or is that another
one of your apparently simple developments we'll have to wait for? :-)

It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

Maybe they have issues with the idea that people could lend such a card
to another unqualified family member (or even friend) to get cheaper
travel. A bit like a discounted Oyster, I agree, but maybe they already
have too much leakage from those and don't want to compound the felony?
--
Roland Perry

On 17/09/2014 20:42, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 14:24:48
on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
[...]
One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will
be available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on
using your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This
includes all National Railcard discounts."

I thought so but wonder why. If the processing is all in the back
office why
can't railcards be associated with the accounts there? Or is that another
one of your apparently simple developments we'll have to wait for? :-)

It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

You'd need a solid system in place to verify that the payment card
holder really did hold a Railcard.

Then you'd need a solid system in place for RPIs and the like to be
informed that they should also checking for a valid Railcard.

Bit more than two lines of code there.


Maybe they have issues with the idea that people could lend such a card
to another unqualified family member (or even friend) to get cheaper
travel. A bit like a discounted Oyster, I agree, but maybe they already
have too much leakage from those and don't want to compound the felony?

In message , at 21:12:14 on Wed, 17 Sep
2014, Mizter T remarked:
One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will
be available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on
using your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This
includes all National Railcard discounts."

I thought so but wonder why. If the processing is all in the back
office why
can't railcards be associated with the accounts there? Or is that another
one of your apparently simple developments we'll have to wait for? :-)

It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

You'd need a solid system in place to verify that the payment card
holder really did hold a Railcard.

Then you'd need a solid system in place for RPIs and the like to be
informed that they should also checking for a valid Railcard.

Bit more than two lines of code there.

Actually, all that stuff is already needed for Oyster loaded with a
Railcard.
--
Roland Perry

On 18/09/2014 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
[...]
It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

You'd need a solid system in place to verify that the payment card
holder really did hold a Railcard.

Then you'd need a solid system in place for RPIs and the like to be
informed that they should also checking for a valid Railcard.

Bit more than two lines of code there.

Actually, all that stuff is already needed for Oyster loaded with a
Railcard.

One significant difference is that the Railcard discount flag is
actually stored on the Oyster card - that's not possible with CPCs (just
possibly might be with a future generation of them).

RPIs do ask to see associated Railcards.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:42:54 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 14:24:48
on Wed, 17 Sep 2014, remarked:
Now that CPC is fully rolled out, I expect we'll see more
information about both TfL's position on this issue and also war
stories from disappointed would-be travellers.

One question that occurs to me is whether railcard discounts will be
available with contactless cards if so, how?

Currently a bald "no". From the TfL FAQ:

"If you're eligible for discounted travel, you should carry on
using your existing Oyster card or Oyster photocard.

Discounts can't be added to contactless payment cards. This
includes all National Railcard discounts."

I thought so but wonder why. If the processing is all in the back office
why can't railcards be associated with the accounts there? Or is that
another one of your apparently simple developments we'll have to wait
for? :-)

It is indeed "apparently simple" About two lines of code could apply
such a discount to a suitably registered contactless account.

Maybe they have issues with the idea that people could lend such a card
to another unqualified family member (or even friend) to get cheaper
travel. A bit like a discounted Oyster, I agree, but maybe they already
have too much leakage from those and don't want to compound the felony?

I suspect the main issue is how, if people set up accounts on line,
TfL can possibly verify that someone saying they have a Railcard
actually does have one. I doubt there is any system to system link
between TfL and whatever system RSP have for railcards (if they even
have one!).

The way round that at present is that you physically present yourself
and your entitlement and a ticket clerk enters all the relevant
details. With a move to scrap ticket offices there has to be some way
of adding entitlement - and yes I know that is via a roving member of
staff logging on to a passenger machine and doing what the ticket
clerk currently does! However is anyone going to want to show a bank
card to a staff member to punch in to a ticket machine? I guess
someone could, at the relevant point in the process, stick their card
in the card reader so details are transferred electronically but it
all seems a dreadful faff.

I suspect discount entitlements will not move across to CPCs at all.
They'll remain on Oyster and later "dumb" Oyster with TfL simply
migrating the vast majority of entitlements as part of a card
"switchover" process when current Oyster is decommissioned (Phase 5 of
the Future Ticketing Project).

I don't get this. A contactless card will be linked to an account in th TfL
back office. So if a cardholder shows contactless card and railcard to staff
member why shouldn't they record the discount on the account just as they do
now sort of?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 17/09/2014 21:35, wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
[...]
I suspect the main issue is how, if people set up accounts on line,
TfL can possibly verify that someone saying they have a Railcard
actually does have one. I doubt there is any system to system link
between TfL and whatever system RSP have for railcards (if they even
have one!).

The way round that at present is that you physically present yourself
and your entitlement and a ticket clerk enters all the relevant
details. With a move to scrap ticket offices there has to be some way
of adding entitlement - and yes I know that is via a roving member of
staff logging on to a passenger machine and doing what the ticket
clerk currently does! However is anyone going to want to show a bank
card to a staff member to punch in to a ticket machine? I guess
someone could, at the relevant point in the process, stick their card
in the card reader so details are transferred electronically but it
all seems a dreadful faff.

I suspect discount entitlements will not move across to CPCs at all.
They'll remain on Oyster and later "dumb" Oyster with TfL simply
migrating the vast majority of entitlements as part of a card
"switchover" process when current Oyster is decommissioned (Phase 5 of
the Future Ticketing Project).

I don't get this. A contactless card will be linked to an account in th TfL
back office. So if a cardholder shows contactless card and railcard to staff
member why shouldn't they record the discount on the account just as they do
now sort of?

Two answers...

(1) It gives you something to remain annoyed about.

(2) Using what (PCI DSS compliant) mechanism?

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 17/09/2014 21:35, wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
[...]
I suspect the main issue is how, if people set up accounts on line,
TfL can possibly verify that someone saying they have a Railcard
actually does have one. I doubt there is any system to system link
between TfL and whatever system RSP have for railcards (if they even
have one!).

The way round that at present is that you physically present yourself
and your entitlement and a ticket clerk enters all the relevant
details. With a move to scrap ticket offices there has to be some way
of adding entitlement - and yes I know that is via a roving member of
staff logging on to a passenger machine and doing what the ticket
clerk currently does! However is anyone going to want to show a bank
card to a staff member to punch in to a ticket machine? I guess
someone could, at the relevant point in the process, stick their card
in the card reader so details are transferred electronically but it
all seems a dreadful faff.

I suspect discount entitlements will not move across to CPCs at all.
They'll remain on Oyster and later "dumb" Oyster with TfL simply
migrating the vast majority of entitlements as part of a card
"switchover" process when current Oyster is decommissioned (Phase 5 of
the Future Ticketing Project).

I don't get this. A contactless card will be linked to an account in the
TfL back office. So if a cardholder shows contactless card and railcard
to staff member why shouldn't they record the discount on the account
just as they do now sort of?

Two answers...

(1) It gives you something to remain annoyed about.

Not that silly! Not handling railcards limits the ability of contactless to
replace Oyster.

(2) Using what (PCI DSS compliant) mechanism?

Huh? How does the suggestion I made differ from the current process which
records the entitlement on the Oyster card instead of in the back office?

--
Colin Rosenstiel