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Borisbuses
I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so, why? |
Borisbuses
On 27/02/2015 16:25, Basil Jet wrote: I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so, why? That'll be the Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 body - and yes, it does look a bit New Routemaster-esque - I think someone else commented on this here a while back, and I certainly thought it the first time I saw one of these buses in 2013 (?). It's the shallower top-deck windows that does it, I think: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wirewiping/16395155167 https://www.flickr.com/photos/londonbusbreh1912/16615416021 Re the NBFL / New Routemasters (aka Boris buses) - as of October 2014, only half the initial 600 ordered had been delivered, and TfL ordered an extra 200 - so they're definitely still being manufactured. There was never any plan that the NBFL would replace all other double deckers. Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful. Also, a number of NBFL routes are now operated without a conductor throughout the day, so the much heralded opportunity to hop-on and hop-off the rear platform doesn't exist (there's a door there instead). And in terms of the potential for fare evasion - which was a significant part of the Boris critique of bendy buses - the NBFL has three doors which can all be used for entry and exit, and on those routes with a conductor they nonetheless don't do any ticket checking - instead they guard the back door (I've seen some looking out for possible fare evasion, but they can't really roam from the rear platform). Lets say I wouldn't put the NBFL in the unqualified success category. |
Borisbuses
On 2015-02-27 16:52:31 +0000, Mizter T said:
Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful. I think they will either have to fit opening windows or full-on aircon, which of course will both hit fuel consumption of an already heavy bus. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On 27/02/2015 17:38, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-02-27 16:52:31 +0000, Mizter T said: Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful. I think they will either have to fit opening windows or full-on aircon, which of course will both hit fuel consumption of an already heavy bus. Full aircon on a bus with an always open door doesn't seem like a winner. I think Paul C has previously speculated that fitting opening windows upstairs might not be structurally possible on the NBFL. Certainly, other better ventilated buses - with opening windows and forced air ventilation systems - were more pleasant than stuffy NBFLs on hot days. |
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In article , (Basil Jet) wrote: I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so, why? Looks like a pretty bog standard modern bus to me. Yes, I agree. Doesn't look at all like a Boris bus to me. For good or bad, Boris buses really do look quite different to other modern buses (and to old RMs, too). |
Borisbuses
On 2015-02-27 17:50:33 +0000, Mizter T said:
Full aircon on a bus with an always open door doesn't seem like a winner. Shops manage it, using those air curtain things. So there might be a way. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On 2015-02-28 10:56:30 +0000, Paul Corfield said:
I expect the NB4L will always remain controversial. I don't use them because they are so noisy they give me headaches and make me ill. I rarely get headaches so for me to get one requires something "special". Every time a route converts to the NB4L another bit of the bus network is "shut off" for me. Call me stupid if you want but no other bus makes me ill. I don't find them any noisier than any other London bus with the upstairs extractor fans. Is there perhaps something else about them, like the ride quality? Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
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On 2015\02\28 10:56, Paul Corfield wrote:
I expect the NB4L will always remain controversial. I don't use them because they are so noisy they give me headaches and make me ill. I rarely get headaches so for me to get one requires something "special". Every time a route converts to the NB4L another bit of the bus network is "shut off" for me. Call me stupid if you want but no other bus makes me ill. Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! Thanks to everyone who's commented. |
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On 2015-02-28 12:53:55 +0000, Basil Jet said:
Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! I would be interested in what the precise cause of that is. I have a similar thing with trains - the awful suspension and failure to bolt the seats to the wall on the Class 180s means I can barely stand a journey in one. Now they *were* units that had so much potential but turned out cheap and nasty. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
In message , at 16:29:58 on Sat, 28
Feb 2015, Neil Williams remarked: Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! I would be interested in what the precise cause of that is. I have a similar thing with trains - the awful suspension and failure to bolt the seats to the wall on the Class 180s means I can barely stand a journey in one. While I as a person can cope with the 180's sideways oscillations, it makes it impossible to type on a keyboard whose keys are shifting left and right faster than one could ever correct for it. -- Roland Perry |
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On 2015\02\28 16:29, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2015-02-28 12:53:55 +0000, Basil Jet said: Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! I would be interested in what the precise cause of that is. I have a similar thing with trains - the awful suspension and failure to bolt the seats to the wall on the Class 180s means I can barely stand a journey in one. ?? I now have this mental picture of a train with a load of swivel chairs sliding around on every curve. Wildly swinging chandeliers would complete the image. And some very annoyed people in waistcoats with twirly moustaches, playing snooker and shouting "Great Scott!" |
Borisbuses
On Saturday, 28 February 2015 18:06:05 UTC, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\02\28 16:29, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-02-28 12:53:55 +0000, Basil Jet said: Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! I would be interested in what the precise cause of that is. I have a similar thing with trains - the awful suspension and failure to bolt the seats to the wall on the Class 180s means I can barely stand a journey in one. ?? I now have this mental picture of a train with a load of swivel chairs sliding around on every curve. Wildly swinging chandeliers would complete the image. And some very annoyed people in waistcoats with twirly moustaches, playing snooker and shouting "Great Scott!" .....LOL! And one man trying to keep a pencil upright on a saucer. |
Borisbuses
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\02\28 16:29, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-02-28 12:53:55 +0000, Basil Jet said: Wow. I don't think you've mentioned that. That's a scandalous flaw. In the bus, not in you! I would be interested in what the precise cause of that is. I have a similar thing with trains - the awful suspension and failure to bolt the seats to the wall on the Class 180s means I can barely stand a journey in one. ?? I now have this mental picture of a train with a load of swivel chairs sliding around on every curve. Wildly swinging chandeliers would complete the image. And some very annoyed people in waistcoats with twirly moustaches, playing snooker and shouting "Great Scott!" I must say, that was one of the nice things about the Caledonian Sleeper when I travelled on it (which was, as I mentioned before, about 15 years ago) - the bar car had proper tables and chairs you could move. It was quite a novelty! It also had ashtrays - ahh, those were the glory days... Romanian sleepers don't have the movable furniture in the dining car, but joy of joys you can get an ashtray (or more accurately, ash saucer) if you ask nicely :-). |
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On 2015-02-28 18:06:04 +0000, Basil Jet said:
?? Most trains have a pair of seats supported by being bolted to a track on the sidewall and having only one "leg" on the other side, bolted to the floor. The Class 175 and 180 have two vertical "legs" bolted to the floor, not the sidewall. As the frame isn't rigid enough, this means they sway side to side. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On 2015\02\28 20:56, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2015-02-28 18:06:04 +0000, Basil Jet said: ?? Most trains have a pair of seats supported by being bolted to a track on the sidewall and having only one "leg" on the other side, bolted to the floor. The Class 175 and 180 have two vertical "legs" bolted to the floor, not the sidewall. As the frame isn't rigid enough, this means they sway side to side. Hopefully there's no room for fingers between the seat and the wall! |
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On 2015-02-28 21:34:50 +0000, Basil Jet said:
Hopefully there's no room for fingers between the seat and the wall! Never even thought of that, but it's yet another reason why it's an idiotic design... Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 07:19:32PM +0000, Clank wrote:
I must say, that was one of the nice things about the Caledonian Sleeper when I travelled on it (which was, as I mentioned before, about 15 years ago) - the bar car had proper tables and chairs you could move. It was quite a novelty! It still does! -- David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club" Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups |
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On 2015-03-02 12:36:54 +0000, David Cantrell said:
It still does! Except the Fort William portion which is a Mk2 buffet first with fixed seating. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On 02/03/2015 12:36, David Cantrell wrote: On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 07:19:32PM +0000, Clank wrote: I must say, that was one of the nice things about the Caledonian Sleeper when I travelled on it (which was, as I mentioned before, about 15 years ago) - the bar car had proper tables and chairs you could move. It was quite a novelty! It still does! Indeed (with the caveat that Neil gives). I wonder why the Cornish sleeper didn't follow suite (it has fixed First class 2+1 seating in the bar car). |
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On 03/03/2015 08:15, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-03 01:51:52 +0000, said: More to the point, what will Serco's new stock have? 2+1 fixed seating...not aligned to the windows. Sheer madness. Is that just for the seated carriages though? |
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On 2015-03-04 16:19:23 +0000, Mizter T said:
Is that just for the seated carriages though? The seating carriages are misaligned, but as they are all airline seats this is not all that surprising. The one that is really surprising is that the windows in the *lounge car* are not aligned. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the @ to reply. |
Borisbuses
On 04/03/2015 17:56, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-04 16:19:23 +0000, Mizter T said: Is that just for the seated carriages though? The seating carriages are misaligned, but as they are all airline seats this is not all that surprising. The one that is really surprising is that the windows in the *lounge car* are not aligned. Neil OK, I haven't yet looked at the plans. |
Borisbuses
On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 08:15:48AM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2015-03-03 01:51:52 +0000, said: More to the point, what will Serco's new stock have? 2+1 fixed seating...not aligned to the windows. Sheer madness. Source? I've not been able to find anything. I did learn, however, that they'll be using class 73s to haul the trains north of Glasgow and Edinburgh. Very surprising. -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence The Law of Daves: in any gathering of technical people, the number of Daves will be greater than the number of women. |
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On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:52:41 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote: On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 08:15:48AM +0000, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-03 01:51:52 +0000, said: More to the point, what will Serco's new stock have? 2+1 fixed seating...not aligned to the windows. Sheer madness. Source? I've not been able to find anything. I did learn, however, that they'll be using class 73s to haul the trains north of Glasgow and Edinburgh. Very surprising. Re-engined 1500hp GBRf 73/9s, of course, but only when they're ready. Initially, they'll use Class 47s. |
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In article ,
(Recliner) wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:52:41 +0000, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 08:15:48AM +0000, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-03 01:51:52 +0000, said: More to the point, what will Serco's new stock have? 2+1 fixed seating...not aligned to the windows. Sheer madness. Source? I've not been able to find anything. I did learn, however, that they'll be using class 73s to haul the trains north of Glasgow and Edinburgh. Very surprising. Re-engined 1500hp GBRf 73/9s, of course, but only when they're ready. Initially, they'll use Class 47s. I thought not 47s. 37s? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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In article , (Recliner) wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:52:41 +0000, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 08:15:48AM +0000, Neil Williams wrote: On 2015-03-03 01:51:52 +0000, said: More to the point, what will Serco's new stock have? 2+1 fixed seating...not aligned to the windows. Sheer madness. Source? I've not been able to find anything. I did learn, however, that they'll be using class 73s to haul the trains north of Glasgow and Edinburgh. Very surprising. Re-engined 1500hp GBRf 73/9s, of course, but only when they're ready. Initially, they'll use Class 47s. I thought not 47s. 37s? No, 47s. GBRf is hiring some in from HNRC. http://www.gbrailfreight.com/media-c...news-releases/ |
Borisbuses
On 27/02/2015 16:52, Mizter T wrote: On 27/02/2015 16:25, Basil Jet wrote: I notice that the 125 bus has a new fleet of buses which look a tiny bit like Borisbuses, but are not. Having spent all that money on designing a New Bus For London, I imagined that it would replace all of the double-deckers as they became life-expired, but it would seem not. Is the Borisbus considered a failure? Have they stopped making them already? Was it only ever going to be used in touristy areas, and if so, why? [big snip] Regarding the success or otherwise of the NBFL - well, despite some assurances that all was now well, I think the issue of them getting too hot in the summer - hence the Roastmaster nickname - is perhaps a fundamental flaw in the design. They really aren't very pleasant when it's hot, especially upstairs. Perhaps I'll reserve ultimate judgement until this summer, but I'm not enormously hopeful. Just to follow this up - they're still too bloody hot and stuffy. Yes, yesterday was exceptional, but I didn't get on one yesterday - I have got on them in recent days and weeks when the weather has been hot but also just unexceptionally warm. A friend could only stand it for one stop on Tuesday. If there's a choice, in warm weather I'll choose a route served by another type of bus that has opening windows! The forced air circulation systems on other types of bus seem to do a better job too. They might look good from the outside (though I grant that's a subjective opinion) - but they fail in a very basic way in terms of offering a pleasant or even adequate environment for passengers. And that's being kind - they offer a deeply unpleasant sauna in summer months. The bendy buses could get a bit too hot too - but not like this. |
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On 02/07/2015 19:22, wrote: In article , (Mizter T) wrote: Just to follow this up - they're still too bloody hot and stuffy. Yes, yesterday was exceptional, but I didn't get on one yesterday - I have got on them in recent days and weeks when the weather has been hot but also just unexceptionally warm. A friend could only stand it for one stop on Tuesday. If there's a choice, in warm weather I'll choose a route served by another type of bus that has opening windows! The forced air circulation systems on other types of bus seem to do a better job too. They might look good from the outside (though I grant that's a subjective opinion) - but they fail in a very basic way in terms of offering a pleasant or even adequate environment for passengers. And that's being kind - they offer a deeply unpleasant sauna in summer months. The bendy buses could get a bit too hot too - but not like this. At least the Borisbuses don't catch fire! The passengers just catch on fire instead! (Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.) |
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On Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:27:28 +0100
Mizter T wrote: The passengers just catch on fire instead! (Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.) Wonder how they're coping in the 40C heat of a Maltese summer! -- Spud |
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On Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:27:28 +0100 Mizter T wrote: The passengers just catch on fire instead! (Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.) Wonder how they're coping in the 40C heat of a Maltese summer! They don't have to, as they didn't last long there, either. From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malt...282011-2013.29 "In August 2013, the Government of Malta instructed Arriva Malta to remove the articulated buses from service, pending investigation following three major fire outbreaks in the span of 48 hours. The fires destroyed the buses and in one case caused extensive damage to some nearby vehicles belonging to MaltaPost, the country's postal operator. Nobody was injured in these incidents. Like in the UK when the same buses had caught fire, these buses became a popular joke in conversations and social media sites." |
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 08:36:22 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:27:28 +0100 Mizter T wrote: The passengers just catch on fire instead! (Modifications to the Citaro bendy buses sorted that problem out.) Wonder how they're coping in the 40C heat of a Maltese summer! They don't have to, as they didn't last long there, either. From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malt...282011-2013.29 "In August 2013, the Government of Malta instructed Arriva Malta to remove the articulated buses from service, pending investigation following three major fire outbreaks in the span of 48 hours. The fires destroyed the buses and in one case caused extensive damage to some nearby vehicles belonging to MaltaPost, the country's postal operator. Nobody was injured in these incidents. Like in the UK when the same buses had caught fire, these buses became a popular joke in conversations and social media sites." Not Mercedes finest hour TBH. Though I still think the idea is far better than a double decker. -- Spud |
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