Basil Jet wrote:
Apparently some deal has been struck but other unions have yet to agree,
so it's not all signed, sealed and delivered yet.

I was under the impression that the TSSA was the union most opposed to the
Night Tube, perhaps because its members have less to gain from it? So the
fact that the RMT has agreed may not mean much.

On 01/03/2016 22:23, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:07:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
Apparently some deal has been struck but other unions have yet to agree,
so it's not all signed, sealed and delivered yet.

I was under the impression that the TSSA was the union most opposed to the
Night Tube, perhaps because its members have less to gain from it? So the
fact that the RMT has agreed may not mean much.

Yer wot? RMT represent most station staff, a share of train drivers,
control room staff plus maintainers and call out engineers. Their
acceptance is a significant step. Obviously all the unions have to
agree but the RMT staff saying yes makes a go ahead, post Mayoral
election, likely. It can't be introduced during purdah which starts
on or around 20 March - the Assembly effectively ceases business then
until the new Mayor and Assembly are elected on 5 May. Anyway LU will
need several weeks / months to finalise rosters and complete
arrangements which have been on hold for months.


Well, when it does eventually arrive it will be immensely popular.

Mizter T wrote:

On 01/03/2016 22:23, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:07:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
Apparently some deal has been struck but other unions have yet to agree,
so it's not all signed, sealed and delivered yet.

I was under the impression that the TSSA was the union most opposed to the
Night Tube, perhaps because its members have less to gain from it? So the
fact that the RMT has agreed may not mean much.

Yer wot? RMT represent most station staff, a share of train drivers,
control room staff plus maintainers and call out engineers. Their
acceptance is a significant step. Obviously all the unions have to
agree but the RMT staff saying yes makes a go ahead, post Mayoral
election, likely. It can't be introduced during purdah which starts
on or around 20 March - the Assembly effectively ceases business then
until the new Mayor and Assembly are elected on 5 May. Anyway LU will
need several weeks / months to finalise rosters and complete
arrangements which have been on hold for months.


Well, when it does eventually arrive it will be immensely popular.

Not, it appears, with people who live near LU stations or the surface
sections of the Night Tube lines. Perhaps also not with taxi drivers who
will lose lucrative business.

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:23:40 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:


On 01/03/2016 22:23, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 21:07:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
Apparently some deal has been struck but other unions have yet to agree,
so it's not all signed, sealed and delivered yet.

I was under the impression that the TSSA was the union most opposed to the
Night Tube, perhaps because its members have less to gain from it? So the
fact that the RMT has agreed may not mean much.

Yer wot? RMT represent most station staff, a share of train drivers,
control room staff plus maintainers and call out engineers. Their
acceptance is a significant step. Obviously all the unions have to
agree but the RMT staff saying yes makes a go ahead, post Mayoral
election, likely. It can't be introduced during purdah which starts
on or around 20 March - the Assembly effectively ceases business then
until the new Mayor and Assembly are elected on 5 May. Anyway LU will
need several weeks / months to finalise rosters and complete
arrangements which have been on hold for months.


Well, when it does eventually arrive it will be immensely popular.

I remain to be convinced but I'm heading towards "old git"hood so I'm
not the target demographic. I expect "bright young things" will love
it but then they happily spend all night in town doing whatever they
do. I suspect the noise issue is going to escalate enormously -
Assembly members have been seeking reassurance for months and it's not
evident much has been done. I assume this is because the planning
horizons are so long that it can't be scheduled quickly. There are
also repeated questions about onward transport connections and toilet
provision. Much of this remains unanswered and yet they're entirely
predictable issues.

A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people. I am therefore left wondering just what level of
usage it will get. I am also sceptical about the safety aspects given
Brits' notorious inability to handle their drink. I suspect it's
already awful at "last train" time but the thoughts of groups of
incapable people falling down escalators and off platforms doesn't
bare thinking about. I also feel sorry for the staff who'll have to
handle these people.


Yes, on my now very rare excursions on post-midnight Tube trains, there are
usually throwing-up-drunk passengers, sometimes incapable of walking
unaided. Without the discipline of having to drink up and leave soon after
11pm it's bound to be worse. And, as you mention, if there aren't available
toilets, it's going to be even worse.

As it happens, the Night Tube services won't serve anywhere near where I
live, so I doubt that I'll be a regular user. But I suspect that the
suburban minicab offices at Night Tube stations will do well.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:23:40 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:

Well, when it does eventually arrive it will be immensely popular.

I remain to be convinced but I'm heading towards "old git"hood so I'm
not the target demographic. I expect "bright young things" will love
it but then they happily spend all night in town doing whatever they
do. I suspect the noise issue is going to escalate enormously -
Assembly members have been seeking reassurance for months and it's not
evident much has been done. I assume this is because the planning
horizons are so long that it can't be scheduled quickly. There are
also repeated questions about onward transport connections and toilet
provision. Much of this remains unanswered and yet they're entirely
predictable issues.

A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people. I am therefore left wondering just what level of
usage it will get. I am also sceptical about the safety aspects given
Brits' notorious inability to handle their drink. I suspect it's
already awful at "last train" time but the thoughts of groups of
incapable people falling down escalators and off platforms doesn't
bare thinking about. I also feel sorry for the staff who'll have to
handle these people.

I thought the main target audience for the night tube is people already
overcrowding night buses?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 20:13:57 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 23:23:40 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:

Well, when it does eventually arrive it will be immensely popular.

I remain to be convinced but I'm heading towards "old git"hood so I'm
not the target demographic. I expect "bright young things" will love
it but then they happily spend all night in town doing whatever they
do. I suspect the noise issue is going to escalate enormously -
Assembly members have been seeking reassurance for months and it's not
evident much has been done. I assume this is because the planning
horizons are so long that it can't be scheduled quickly. There are
also repeated questions about onward transport connections and toilet
provision. Much of this remains unanswered and yet they're entirely
predictable issues.

A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people. I am therefore left wondering just what level of
usage it will get. I am also sceptical about the safety aspects given
Brits' notorious inability to handle their drink. I suspect it's
already awful at "last train" time but the thoughts of groups of
incapable people falling down escalators and off platforms doesn't
bare thinking about. I also feel sorry for the staff who'll have to
handle these people.

I thought the main target audience for the night tube is people already
overcrowding night buses?

Wouldn't that market be more easily and much more cheaply satisfied by
more night buses?

A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people.

Hi from New York, where the unde, excuse me, subway has run 24/7 since
1904. Some services stop running after midnight, but every station
has service all night, most with 3tph or better.

In NYC there are certainly people coming home late from clubs, since
they can stay open until 0400, but there's also a lot of shift workers
and ordinary people doing errands they can't do during the day.

Everyone in NYC knows the subway always runs, so I expect the way
people use it is different from cities where late night service is a
recent or sometime thing.

On 2016\03\02 03:26, John Levine wrote:
A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people.

Hi from New York, where the unde, excuse me, subway has run 24/7 since
1904. Some services stop running after midnight, but every station
has service all night, most with 3tph or better.

In NYC there are certainly people coming home late from clubs, since
they can stay open until 0400, but there's also a lot of shift workers
and ordinary people doing errands they can't do during the day.

Everyone in NYC knows the subway always runs, so I expect the way
people use it is different from cities where late night service is a
recent or sometime thing.

Is it safe in all parts of the network at 3am?

John Levine wrote:
A recent Guardian feature on similar all night metro services in
various cities showed an almost exclusively young clientel and not
many other people.

Hi from New York, where the unde, excuse me, subway has run 24/7 since
1904. Some services stop running after midnight, but every station
has service all night, most with 3tph or better.

In NYC there are certainly people coming home late from clubs, since
they can stay open until 0400, but there's also a lot of shift workers
and ordinary people doing errands they can't do during the day.

Everyone in NYC knows the subway always runs, so I expect the way
people use it is different from cities where late night service is a
recent or sometime thing.

And, in London, it will be only on two nights of the week, and only on
parts of some lines, so nothing like the service you get in NYC.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 20:13:57 -0600,
wrote:

I thought the main target audience for the night tube is people already
overcrowding night buses?

Wouldn't that market be more easily and much more cheaply satisfied by
more night buses?

Except that some flows are too high for that to work well.

--
Colin Rosenstiel