On 12/06/2016 18:19, Mizter T wrote:

On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:

[...]

For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."
He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL fares.

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

But money raised from the residents of areas so served is just as
hard-earned as that raised from Dulwich or Cockfosters.

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 3:37:02 AM UTC+1, Robin9 wrote:
Mizter T;156169 Wrote:
On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
-
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:--
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of
Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley-

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL
fares.-

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.-

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.


It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

e27002 wrote:
On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 3:37:02 AM UTC+1, Robin9 wrote:
Mizter T;156169 Wrote:
On 12/06/2016 17:48, JNugent wrote:
-
On 10/06/2016 22:42, Recliner wrote:--
[...]
For example the page below doesn't mention that for residents of
Bexley
or Bromley the freeze will have virtually no effect.

http://www.sadiq.london/sam_russell_bexley_bromley-

True, though he does correctly say, "Sadiq Khan has a clear and costed
plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next four years, so you will
not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016."

He certainly doesn't say he will freeze *all* fares, only all TfL
fares.-

In that case, his promise is a non-sequitur for many Londoners, as
anyone who can remember the "supplementary rates" debacle(s).

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.-

If you are referring to rail fares from Bromley, Bexley or Kingston on
Thames, then these are NR fares not TfL fares. Simple fact.

Yes, we all know that; but many non-enthusiasts don't.
When such non-enthusiasts are told "you will not pay a
penny more in 2020 than you do in 2016" they do not analyse
the small print for weasel escape clauses. They take such
promises at face value, and that was what Sadiq Khan was
counting on.


It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:

It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:

It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.


Ah, I wondered, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the correction.

On 2016\06\13 10:07, solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:

It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

All boroughs have TfL railways to Central London except

* Sutton, which has trams
* Kingston, which has nothing
* Bexley, which is getting Crossrail at Abbey Wood soon

"Basil Jet" wrote in message
...
On 2016\06\13 10:07, solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:

It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to
realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA
monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have
TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

All boroughs have TfL railways to Central London except

* Sutton, which has trams

Beddington Lane to Therapia Lane

Big f-ing deal

tim

On 13/06/2016 12:15, Basil Jet wrote:


* Sutton, which has trams

Strictly speaking true, but not that useful unless you want to go one
stop from Beddington Lane to Therapia Lane. The borough boundary looks
suspiciously like it was drawn around Therapia Lane stop - anyone know
if it was?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 13/06/2016 17:58, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 13/06/2016 12:15, Basil Jet wrote:


* Sutton, which has trams

Strictly speaking true, but not that useful unless you want to go one
stop from Beddington Lane to Therapia Lane. The borough boundary looks
suspiciously like it was drawn around Therapia Lane stop - anyone know
if it was?

Looking at old maps, it seems the site of the tram stop has "always"
been Sutton, but the boundary immediately to the south may have been
redrawn around the (Croydon) housing estate which appears to have
replaced a hospital while leaving the corner (where the tram stop now
is) where it was, and thus on a kind of salient of Sutton.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 12:15:42 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2016\06\13 10:07, solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:

It was deceptive to say the least. One wonders how long it will take
Borough of Croydon, and the Royal Borough Kingston-Upon-Thames to realize
that they would be better off as unitary authorities outwith the GLA monolith.

Yes, I'm sure that losing their Freedom Passes would be really popular
among the residents of those boroughs! No doubt, higher tram fares would
also raise a cheer. But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?

Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

All boroughs have TfL railways to Central London except

* Sutton, which has trams
* Kingston, which has nothing
* Bexley, which is getting Crossrail at Abbey Wood soon

So the Royal Borough benefits very little from the council taxes and
business rates it contributes to the GLA. A bit like the UK in the EU
really. :-)