Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role
occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can
leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

[...]

Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the
platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification,
rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs?

I agree, they look good. So 60s!

One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the
waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not
have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR?

Interesting, I don't know...

Richard.

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a
train can leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a
train can leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

I don't know, but they perhaps replace their first ATO systems earlier?
After all, the pioneering Victoria line ATO system did last for well over
40 years; perhaps other first generation ATO systems weren't as long-lived.

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On 14.06.16 20:05, Richard wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role
occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can
leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

[...]

Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the
platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification,
rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs?

I agree, they look good. So 60s!

One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the
waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not
have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR?

Interesting, I don't know...

Richard.

I also wonder why they did not do same with platform repeaters. The only
single-lensed platform repeater that I know of is on the westbound track
at Monument.

It's true that many of them now have LEDs behind their fresnel lenses,
rather than incandescent bulbs. But I wonder if having a single-lense
platform repeater like the one at Monument would not cut costs of having
to source Fresnel lenses.

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

Richard.

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven
line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona
done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100
Richard wrote:
The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the

Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type.

It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control
is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on
the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the
open air.

--
Spud

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100
Richard wrote:
The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the

Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type.

It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control
is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on
the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the
open air.

I believe the new Seltrac system on the SSR will be radio-based.

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:40:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100
Richard wrote:
The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the

Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type.

It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control
is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on
the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the
open air.

I believe the new Seltrac system on the SSR will be radio-based.

Hmm, that'll be interesting then. Lets hope the trackside to train data
connections are encrypted then otherwise someone who knows what they're doing
could cause mayhem.

--
Spud

Why does the victoria line still have signals?
 

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven
line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona
done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour?

Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But
really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did
achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into
unattended ATO a few years ago.

Richard.