On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role
occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can
leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

There are, of course, a couple of differences: The code aspect on the
starters is now blue, rather than lunar white.

Also, the upgrade saw a modification to Victoria Line platform repeaters
in that they now simply show when a train can depart, rather than what
the starter's aspect is.

Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the
platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification,
rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs?

One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the
waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not
have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR?

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100
" wrote:
One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the
waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not
have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR?

It usually comes down to money in the end. Probably easier to replace than
rebuild.

--
Spud

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role
occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can
leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

[...]

Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the
platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification,
rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs?

I agree, they look good. So 60s!

One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the
waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not
have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR?

Interesting, I don't know...

Richard.

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a
train can leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote:

On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun
2016, d remarked:
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play
a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a
train can leave?

Maybe for engineering trains?

I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor
Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators.

IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated
version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations.

The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the
Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get
damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the
colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the
ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a
thought? I'm no expert in it!

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

I don't know, but they perhaps replace their first ATO systems earlier?
After all, the pioneering Victoria line ATO system did last for well over
40 years; perhaps other first generation ATO systems weren't as long-lived.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

Richard.

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven
line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona
done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven
line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona
done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour?

Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But
really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did
achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into
unattended ATO a few years ago.

Richard.

On 15.06.16 20:00, Richard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven
line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona
done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour?

Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But
really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did
achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into
unattended ATO a few years ago.

Richard.

Isn't line 4 due for conversion to crewless in the next few years?

On 14.06.16 22:40, Richard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first
ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something
to say about.

On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line
and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that?

Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had
ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This
was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris
v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice.
Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the
busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same
rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got.

Richard.


I believe that PATCO in Philadelphia was also using auto-pilot since day
one in 1969, mainly using what appeared be fixed trippers. Tripcocks on
the train that came into contact with them would then act in terms of
speed or stopping.