On 21/06/2016 21:32, Jim Chisholm wrote:



DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling doors?
Presumably if he isn't a guard they can pay them less?
How much extra money does the company make if the second man isn't a guard?

Another way of looking at this is that the second man can continue to
sell / check tickets all the time, instead of having to stop every station.

It is a money earning idea - suspect any pay differential will be well
outweighed by increased revenue. Certainly seemed the case when I was
commuting into Glasgow and then in Yorkshire (Keighley / Skipton area).

--
Colin

Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 21/06/2016 09:39, d wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:42:25 +0100
Graham Nye wrote:
On 2016-06-20 08:50, D A Stocks wrote:


http://www.juicebrighton.com/news/br...day-ahead-for-
righton-commuters/

"There is good news for commuters travelling out of Brighton station...

It would make a change. One Brighton commuter of my acquaintance is
getting quite annoyed on twitter about the hours she's losing to
DOO strikes.

The RMT really are a spiteful bunch of ****s. The new working conditions
they're complaining about are already used elsewhere on the Southern network
not to mention all over the country presumably jobs also done by RMT members.
It really is time the government took some action against this union. Any
union sanctioning illegal work to rules and endless sick days off should be
taken to court and ultimately shut down.



DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling doors?
Presumably if he isn't a guard they can pay them less?
How much extra money does the company make if the second man isn't a guard?

Will 12 car trains have 36 doors, or 24? And do 12 car TL trains have
guards? DOO is hardly a new idea: the majority of GTR trains are DOO
already, including 12 car trains.

Many LU trains have 24 or 32 doors, run in tunnels, embankments, cuttings
and open country, and are OPO, not just DOO. LU started the switch to OPO
in 1968, and has been 100% OPO for a couple of decades now; carnage has not
resulted, despite the unions' blood-thirsty predictions.

The SN guards will earn the same and have the same conditions as now when
they become On-Board Supervisors. But the doors will be opened and closed
with less delay with DOO, and the OBS will have more useful duties than
hiding in the back cab, redundantly doing something less efficiently than
the drivers can. And if an OBS doesn't turn up, the train won't need to be
cancelled.

Recliner wrote:

Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 21/06/2016 09:39, d wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:42:25 +0100
Graham Nye wrote:
On 2016-06-20 08:50, D A Stocks wrote:

"There is good news for commuters travelling out of Brighton station...

It would make a change. One Brighton commuter of my acquaintance is
getting quite annoyed on twitter about the hours she's losing to
DOO strikes.

The RMT really are a spiteful bunch of ****s. The new working
conditions they're complaining about are already used elsewhere on the
Southern network not to mention all over the country presumably jobs
also done by RMT members. It really is time the government took some
action against this union. Any union sanctioning illegal work to rules
and endless sick days off should be taken to court and ultimately shut
down.



DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling doors?
Presumably if he isn't a guard they can pay them less? How much extra
money does the company make if the second man isn't a guard?

Will 12 car trains have 36 doors, or 24? And do 12 car TL trains have
guards? DOO is hardly a new idea: the majority of GTR trains are DOO
already, including 12 car trains.

Many LU trains have 24 or 32 doors, run in tunnels, embankments, cuttings
and open country, and are OPO, not just DOO. LU started the switch to OPO
in 1968, and has been 100% OPO for a couple of decades now; carnage has not
resulted, despite the unions' blood-thirsty predictions.

The SN guards will earn the same and have the same conditions as now when
they become On-Board Supervisors. But the doors will be opened and closed
with less delay with DOO, and the OBS will have more useful duties than
hiding in the back cab, redundantly doing something less efficiently than
the drivers can. And if an OBS doesn't turn up, the train won't need to be
cancelled.

On SN even more confusing as some trains are DOO (or at least you never
see the guard) for most of the journey and then need a guard for 4
stations (London - Horsham trains vi Dorking only have the guard after
Dorking)

So any reason not to do DOO needs to explain why Holmwood, Ockley,
Warnham, Horsham are special and these are 10 carriage coaches so the
comment re "DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches" is
proveable wrong


--
Mark

In article ,
(Mark Bestley) wrote:

Recliner wrote:

Jim Chisholm wrote:
On 21/06/2016 09:39, d wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:42:25 +0100
Graham Nye wrote:
On 2016-06-20 08:50, D A Stocks wrote:

"There is good news for commuters travelling out of Brighton
station...

It would make a change. One Brighton commuter of my acquaintance is
getting quite annoyed on twitter about the hours she's losing to
DOO strikes.

The RMT really are a spiteful bunch of ****s. The new working
conditions they're complaining about are already used elsewhere on
the Southern network not to mention all over the country presumably
jobs also done by RMT members. It really is time the government took
some action against this union. Any union sanctioning illegal work to
rules and endless sick days off should be taken to court and
ultimately shut down.

DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling
doors? Presumably if he isn't a guard they can pay them less? How much
extra money does the company make if the second man isn't a guard?

Will 12 car trains have 36 doors, or 24? And do 12 car TL trains have
guards? DOO is hardly a new idea: the majority of GTR trains are DOO
already, including 12 car trains.

Many LU trains have 24 or 32 doors, run in tunnels, embankments,
cuttings and open country, and are OPO, not just DOO. LU started the
switch to OPO in 1968, and has been 100% OPO for a couple of decades
now; carnage has not resulted, despite the unions' blood-thirsty
predictions.

The SN guards will earn the same and have the same conditions as now
when they become On-Board Supervisors. But the doors will be opened and
closed with less delay with DOO, and the OBS will have more useful
duties than hiding in the back cab, redundantly doing something less
efficiently than the drivers can. And if an OBS doesn't turn up, the
train won't need to be cancelled.

On SN even more confusing as some trains are DOO (or at least you never
see the guard) for most of the journey and then need a guard for 4
stations (London - Horsham trains vi Dorking only have the guard after
Dorking)

So any reason not to do DOO needs to explain why Holmwood, Ockley,
Warnham, Horsham are special and these are 10 carriage coaches so the
comment re "DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches" is
proveable wrong

Never mind them. Jim, like me, lives in the Cambridge area. Cambridge has
DOO on all London services and regular 12-car trains to and from both King's
Cross and Liverpool Street.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 21:32:06 on Tue, 21 Jun
2016, Jim Chisholm remarked:

DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling doors?

What about the 12-car DOO 365's to Cambridge? They don't even have a
corridor connection between the three units.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 21:32:06 on Tue, 21 Jun
2016, Jim Chisholm remarked:

DOO might be fine for upto half a dozen coaches, but given the huge
numbers that can be stuffed on 12 coach train and the difficultly of a
driver, even with CCTV, being able to monitor 36? doors and that the
'second man' is doing other duties, why not have him controlling doors?

What about the 12-car DOO 365's to Cambridge? They don't even have a
corridor connection between the three units.

Also 12-car DOO 379s to Cambridge.

--
Colin Rosenstiel