David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 01:57:56PM +0100, Recliner wrote:

How would a blind person even order

Same way that they'd use any other smartphone app.

Which is probably not at all? I really doubt that many users of guide dogs
also have smartphones.


or recognise an Uber cab?

Same way that they'd recognise a minicab where they'd ordered it by
phone.

You forget that it's not just completely blind people who can have guide
dogs; that modern phones have accessibility Stuff; that blind people
have sighted friends and family; and so on.

Indeed, the problems probably arise when a blind person with guide dog is
accompanying a sighted person.

It's not a shambles in the normal sense of that word. It's just
that it's dominated by people for whom quality of service is
an alien concept.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:




And anecdotal evidences suggest that Uber don't give a damn, unless
pushed,
and pushed and pushed and threatened with having their execs imprisoned
and
then actually having their execs imprisoned, before they decide to
comply.

Are there any Uber executives based in the UK? And good luck trying to
pin
any criminal conviction on them.

Uber are a US company operating world wide

I see no reason why events in other countries should not be used as
representative of the whole operation (and I'm talking civilised countries,
not tin-pot dictatorships)

Who provided that anecdotal evidence? Was it from an official source, or
the black cab trade, which is losing out to Uber?

This isn't a company that takes its responsibilities seriously.

It's probably better than most cab firms. The reason that black cabs hate
Uber is that it's so popular with customers, not that it provides poor
customer service.

I didn't say that it provided poor customer service

The complaint is that it achieves cheaper fares, in part, by ignoring its
obligations to comply with regulations,

Just like Ryanair used to

tim

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:58:33 on Tue, 16 Aug
2016,
tim... remarked:
And when Uber drivers arrive for a pick up at someone's house, surely
they
announce themselves in the same was as any mini cab would?

Or do they just sit outside and "hope"?

My experience of (pre-Uber) minicab drivers is they just sit outside in
the road tooting the horn until someone emerges from the house. Yet
another completely illegal procedure, of course.

I was aware of that

Recliner was talking as if they didn't even do that

Uber is more likely to be used by people who are out and about.

I don't use it

but I thought the MO of Uber was to be able to hail a mini-cab at an agreed
price, with all of the billing taken care of "automatically"

I can't see any reason why your normal mini-cab user wouldn't use it, none
at all

Once a
driver has been assigned, Uber sends the client a description of the car,
and it's up to the customer to identify it and get in.

Someone getting a mini cab from home is more likely to phone their local
firm,

why, they have all the aggro of paying in cash

which will be cheaper

will it. I thought that Uber was cheaper (or at least the same price) as
mini-cabs

and more likely to have a car available
locally.

why?

They will also accept pre-bookings, which Uber does not.


which is completely irrelevant if you want a car now

tim

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:35:19 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:58:33 on Tue, 16 Aug
2016,
tim... remarked:
And when Uber drivers arrive for a pick up at someone's house, surely
they
announce themselves in the same was as any mini cab would?

Or do they just sit outside and "hope"?

My experience of (pre-Uber) minicab drivers is they just sit outside in
the road tooting the horn until someone emerges from the house. Yet
another completely illegal procedure, of course.

I was aware of that

Recliner was talking as if they didn't even do that

Uber is more likely to be used by people who are out and about.

I don't use it

Rather obviously, as you seem to have an irrational hatred for it,
without any knowledge of what it is or how it works.


but I thought the MO of Uber was to be able to hail a mini-cab at an agreed
price, with all of the billing taken care of "automatically"

I can't see any reason why your normal mini-cab user wouldn't use it, none
at all

That's because you know nothing of Uber, then.

One obvious reason: it's more expensive, especially at 'surge' times.
- Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in
residential areas (just like black cabs).
- Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi
access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account).
- Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use
it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone.

Enough?


Once a
driver has been assigned, Uber sends the client a description of the car,
and it's up to the customer to identify it and get in.

Someone getting a mini cab from home is more likely to phone their local
firm,

why, they have all the aggro of paying in cash

Not necessarily. You can set up an account with other mini cab firms,
and frequent users often do. Or you can often pay with a card.

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.


which will be cheaper

will it. I thought that Uber was cheaper (or at least the same price) as
mini-cabs

No, you're wrong again. Do you really know nothing at all about Uber?

It's usually cheaper than black cabs, but more expensive than mini
cabs. Uber is really competing with black cabs, not other mini cabs.
That's why most of the anecdotal reports attacking Uber comes from
grumpy cabbies who see it as unfair competition that undercuts them.


and more likely to have a car available
locally.

why?

Just like black cabs, Uber drivers hang around busy places, with lots
of potential customers, not residential areas. Local mini cab firms
are far more likely to have drivers available close by.


They will also accept pre-bookings, which Uber does not.


which is completely irrelevant if you want a car now

Sure, but many (most?) mini cabs are pre-booked. As I said, Uber
competes more with black cabs.

I'm curious why you have this deep hatred for something you've never
used, and know nothing about?

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:29:27 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:




And anecdotal evidences suggest that Uber don't give a damn, unless
pushed,
and pushed and pushed and threatened with having their execs imprisoned
and
then actually having their execs imprisoned, before they decide to
comply.

Are there any Uber executives based in the UK? And good luck trying to
pin
any criminal conviction on them.

Uber are a US company operating world wide

I see no reason why events in other countries should not be used as
representative of the whole operation (and I'm talking civilised countries,
not tin-pot dictatorships)

Who provided that anecdotal evidence? Was it from an official source, or
the black cab trade, which is losing out to Uber?

This isn't a company that takes its responsibilities seriously.

It's probably better than most cab firms. The reason that black cabs hate
Uber is that it's so popular with customers, not that it provides poor
customer service.

I didn't say that it provided poor customer service

The complaint is that it achieves cheaper fares, in part, by ignoring its
obligations to comply with regulations,

Just like Ryanair used to

No, that's not why it's cheaper than black cabs. And it's more
expensive than other mini cabs.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:35:19 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:58:33 on Tue, 16 Aug
2016,
tim... remarked:
And when Uber drivers arrive for a pick up at someone's house, surely
they
announce themselves in the same was as any mini cab would?

Or do they just sit outside and "hope"?

My experience of (pre-Uber) minicab drivers is they just sit outside
in
the road tooting the horn until someone emerges from the house. Yet
another completely illegal procedure, of course.

I was aware of that

Recliner was talking as if they didn't even do that

Uber is more likely to be used by people who are out and about.

I don't use it

Rather obviously,

I don't use it, as never have the need for a taxi

as you seem to have an irrational hatred for it,
without any knowledge of what it is or how it works.

I don't like it because it has a business model based upon making extra
"profit, by ignoring or circumventing regulations.

I have a hatred for all companies that do this, and that includes any
company that tries to get around giving their employees rights by bogus SE
contracts - though I accept that Uber drives are almost certainly SE
workers, it is elsewhere that Uber are lazy about compliance.

as such it isn't irrational.

but I thought the MO of Uber was to be able to hail a mini-cab at an
agreed
price, with all of the billing taken care of "automatically"

I can't see any reason why your normal mini-cab user wouldn't use it, none
at all

That's because you know nothing of Uber, then.

One obvious reason: it's more expensive, especially at 'surge' times.
- Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in
residential areas (just like black cabs).
- Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi
access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account).
- Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use
it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone.

Enough?


Once a
driver has been assigned, Uber sends the client a description of the
car,
and it's up to the customer to identify it and get in.

Someone getting a mini cab from home is more likely to phone their local
firm,

why, they have all the aggro of paying in cash

Not necessarily. You can set up an account with other mini cab firms,
and frequent users often do. Or you can often pay with a card.

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the Dartford
crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting up an account
(you can stop in a some garages somewhere to pay, but that's got to be even
more aggro)

which will be cheaper

will it. I thought that Uber was cheaper (or at least the same price) as
mini-cabs

No, you're wrong again. Do you really know nothing at all about Uber?

As a user, no.

Though what I do see is complaints from drivers about how little they end up
with in their pocket (before tax). I had naturally concluded that that was
because there fares were lower.

It's usually cheaper than black cabs, but more expensive than mini
cabs. Uber is really competing with black cabs, not other mini cabs.
That's why most of the anecdotal reports attacking Uber comes from
grumpy cabbies who see it as unfair competition that undercuts them.


and more likely to have a car available
locally.

why?

Just like black cabs, Uber drivers hang around busy places, with lots
of potential customers, not residential areas. Local mini cab firms
are far more likely to have drivers available close by.


They will also accept pre-bookings, which Uber does not.


which is completely irrelevant if you want a car now

Sure, but many (most?) mini cabs are pre-booked.

only in the "10 minutes before" sense

As I said, Uber
competes more with black cabs.

I'm curious why you have this deep hatred for something you've never
used, and know nothing about?

because it's a bottom feeding cherry picking predator.

And this isn't based upon just my vision of its UK operation. I am
following its "abuses" in other countries as well

tim

In message , at 15:05:49 on Wed, 17 Aug
2016, tim... remarked:

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the
Dartford crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting up
an account

If I can chip in here, yes that is deterrent. I've avoided it ever
since. On the other hand I used the M6 toll for the first time a couple
of months ago, and all you have to do is lean out of the car and use any
old contactless credit card.
--
Roland Perry

tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:35:19 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 09:58:33 on Tue, 16 Aug
2016,
tim... remarked:
And when Uber drivers arrive for a pick up at someone's house, surely
they
announce themselves in the same was as any mini cab would?

Or do they just sit outside and "hope"?

My experience of (pre-Uber) minicab drivers is they just sit outside
in
the road tooting the horn until someone emerges from the house. Yet
another completely illegal procedure, of course.

I was aware of that

Recliner was talking as if they didn't even do that

Uber is more likely to be used by people who are out and about.

I don't use it

Rather obviously,

I don't use it, as never have the need for a taxi

as you seem to have an irrational hatred for it,
without any knowledge of what it is or how it works.

I don't like it because it has a business model based upon making extra
"profit, by ignoring or circumventing regulations.

I have a hatred for all companies that do this, and that includes any
company that tries to get around giving their employees rights by bogus SE
contracts - though I accept that Uber drives are almost certainly SE
workers, it is elsewhere that Uber are lazy about compliance.

as such it isn't irrational.

but I thought the MO of Uber was to be able to hail a mini-cab at an
agreed
price, with all of the billing taken care of "automatically"

I can't see any reason why your normal mini-cab user wouldn't use it, none
at all

That's because you know nothing of Uber, then.

One obvious reason: it's more expensive, especially at 'surge' times.
- Second reason: it's less likely to have cars available locally in
residential areas (just like black cabs).
- Third reason: you have to have a smart phone, with a signal/wi-fi
access (which is why very few blind people will have an Uber account).
- Fourth reason: you have to have an Uber account before you can use
it, and Uber's app installed on your smart phone.

Enough?


Once a
driver has been assigned, Uber sends the client a description of the
car,
and it's up to the customer to identify it and get in.

Someone getting a mini cab from home is more likely to phone their local
firm,

why, they have all the aggro of paying in cash

Not necessarily. You can set up an account with other mini cab firms,
and frequent users often do. Or you can often pay with a card.

With Uber, you have to have an account, before you can use it at all.
Cash isn't an option, and nor can you just order an Uber car without
first setting up an account.

You might just as well argue that there's a deterrent to using the Dartford
crossing as you (almost) can't pay for that without setting up an account
(you can stop in a some garages somewhere to pay, but that's got to be even
more aggro)

which will be cheaper

will it. I thought that Uber was cheaper (or at least the same price) as
mini-cabs

No, you're wrong again. Do you really know nothing at all about Uber?

As a user, no.

You know nothing about Uber in any context, but still make all sorts of
barmy allegations about it.


Though what I do see is complaints from drivers about how little they end up
with in their pocket (before tax). I had naturally concluded that that was
because there fares were lower.

It's usually cheaper than black cabs, but more expensive than mini
cabs. Uber is really competing with black cabs, not other mini cabs.
That's why most of the anecdotal reports attacking Uber comes from
grumpy cabbies who see it as unfair competition that undercuts them.


and more likely to have a car available
locally.

why?

Just like black cabs, Uber drivers hang around busy places, with lots
of potential customers, not residential areas. Local mini cab firms
are far more likely to have drivers available close by.


They will also accept pre-bookings, which Uber does not.


which is completely irrelevant if you want a car now

Sure, but many (most?) mini cabs are pre-booked.

only in the "10 minutes before" sense

Not for the many people using them to go to the airport, station, hospital
appointment, etc. People who might otherwise drive or use public transport
(like me) uses a mini cab for such purposes.


As I said, Uber
competes more with black cabs.

I'm curious why you have this deep hatred for something you've never
used, and know nothing about?

because it's a bottom feeding cherry picking predator.

No it's. As I said, you seem to have an irrational hatred of somethig you
know nothing about. It's using technology to provide a new, and for many
customers, a better way of doing something. The people who dislike it most
are its competitors who still do things the old, inefficient way.


And this isn't based upon just my vision of its UK operation. I am
following its "abuses" in other countries as well

If there is a valid criticism of Uber, it's that it treats its drivers as
employees, but pays them as if they're self-employed. So it doesn't provide
employee benefits, but expects them to follow the sort of rules that
employees. That's a particular issue in the US.

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 14:37:28 on Wed, 17 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:
If there is a valid criticism of Uber, it's that it treats its drivers as
employees, but pays them as if they're self-employed. So it doesn't provide
employee benefits, but expects them to follow the sort of rules that
employees.

The "following rules for employees" is one of the acid tests in the UK
for whether you are actually an employee or not, irrespective of what
your contract says.
--
Roland Perry