On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:59:29 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:36:30 on Mon, 14 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Why should we
only be able to buy feeble vacuum cleaners and slow kettles?

The reduce our C02 footprint.

No they don't. A given amount of water requires a certain amount of energy to
boil no matter at what speed you do it.

If it boils slower you'll out less water in, and that's where the saving
comes from.

So its nothing to do with efficiency, its wishful thinking about human nature.

In fact you'll use more energy doing
it slower since you'll have greater heat loss over the longer time period. As
for lower powered vacuum cleaners, all that happens is people will use them
for
longer if they're not doing the job properly.

Many vacuum cleaners create more suction than necessary "because they
can".

Well if mine is anything to go by it doesn't create enough.

--
Spud

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:56:15 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:49 on Mon, 14 Nov
2016, d remarked:

Well if you enjoy subsidising basket case economies (spain, italy, greece,
most
of eastern europe) and think a political entity of which neither the council
that makes policy

They don't *make* much policy, they agree it. And they are elected
because they are ministers from the member states.

Are they? I don't remember anyone voting for Junker.

Bzzt - he's the President of the Commission, nothing to do with the
council of ministers.

Do tell us when this election was held, I must have missed it.

15th July 2014, he was elected by MEPs. Representative democracy.

I'll put it another way, who in THIS country voted for him?

--
Spud

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:38:01 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:32:49 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:47:59 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:13:29 on Mon, 14 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Well if you enjoy subsidising basket case economies (spain, italy, greece,
most
of eastern europe) and think a political entity of which neither the council
that makes policy

They don't *make* much policy, they agree it. And they are elected
because they are ministers from the member states.

Are they? I don't remember anyone voting for Junker. Do tell us when this
election was held, I must have missed it.

Who voted for the Prime Minister ?

Her constituents. Who in the UK voted for Juncker?

--
Spud

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:05:27 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:41:10 on
Mon, 14 Nov 2016, Optimist remarked:
You aren't comparing like with like. The mercury in lightbulbs is a
danger to the environment, that in a barometer is a danger to people in
the same room when it breaks, and for years afterwards as the mercury
lodged in cracks evaporates.

I've never of a case of one breaking. Have you?

There's a few here.

https://www.health.ny.gov/environmen...ercury/mercury
_spill_incidents.htm

So a handful of cases in the USA.

Meanwhile your beloved EU protects German companies responsible for toxic diesel emissions
https://corporateeurope.org/environm...esel-emissions

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:12:34 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 16:54:42 on
Mon, 14 Nov 2016, Optimist remarked:
But rely on ECJ caselaw. Will we airbrush that out on Brexit day, or
will we (can we even) continue to rely upon it?

That depends on the drafting of the legislation.

That's a truism, not an answer.

Ask a lawyer.

Ask them what- the meaning of "truism"?


What are you on about?


Why ten years? Could be ten weeks or ten months.

It takes that long to work out the detail.

No it doesn't, draft agreements with some countries are already taking
shape. This can happen quite quickly, unless you think that
negotiators have to travel in person by sailing ship to discuss terms.

That's just plain wrong. In terms of 80:20 rules, 98% of the work takes
2% of the time, and the final 2% takes 98%.

We'll see.

So you don't know.

So what future trade deals will the EU negotiate? Will there be a deal with Australia? You don't
know that, do you?

It's very difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future.


Also note that the Swiss GDP is a quarter
of the UK's which makes the stakes lower, and thus easier to negotiate.

They've been doing it for years, about the same time as the EU, but
with much greater success.

Do you have an example of one, with start and finish dates? And were the
same team trying to negotiate a dozen others simultaneously.

Ask them. The fact is they trade deals with far more countries than the EU has.

So you don't know.

Will the awful TTIP deal being pushed by the EU go ahead?


We managed before 1973.

The world has become far more complicated.

Really?

Yes, take just one area - telecommunications. In that time we've gone
from "Do what PO Telephones tells you, and shut up" to hundreds of
individual rules and regulations covering thousands of suppliers.

Now there are more service providers, more choice, more competition.

Even when the rules come from the EU. That rather contradicts your
position on mercury.

USA has competition in telecoms as well. Last time I checked USA not in EU.


And why do you think that a single-issue such as [grant funding
famine] will dominate an election campaign?

Stand yourself then and make a difference.

That doesn't answer the question (a definite trend as this thread
continues).

You don't understand democratic politics, do you? That figures, you support unaccountable
government and taxation.


Fact is we give far more money to the EU than we get back.

We get a lot more than "money" back.

Yes, out from under a corrupt empire.

In message , at 09:36:12 on Tue, 15 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Why should we
only be able to buy feeble vacuum cleaners and slow kettles?

The reduce our C02 footprint.

No they don't. A given amount of water requires a certain amount of energy to
boil no matter at what speed you do it.

If it boils slower you'll out less water in, and that's where the saving
comes from.

So its nothing to do with efficiency, its wishful thinking about human nature.

It's better than wishful thinking.

In fact you'll use more energy doing
it slower since you'll have greater heat loss over the longer time period. As
for lower powered vacuum cleaners, all that happens is people will use them
for
longer if they're not doing the job properly.

Many vacuum cleaners create more suction than necessary "because they
can".

Well if mine is anything to go by it doesn't create enough.

How many watts is it? Have you emptied the bag recently.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:40:45 on Tue, 15 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Are they? I don't remember anyone voting for Junker.

Bzzt - he's the President of the Commission, nothing to do with the
council of ministers.

Do tell us when this election was held, I must have missed it.

15th July 2014, he was elected by MEPs. Representative democracy.

I'll put it another way, who in THIS country voted for him?

British MEPs.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:54:55 on
Tue, 15 Nov 2016, Optimist remarked:
You aren't comparing like with like. The mercury in lightbulbs is a
danger to the environment, that in a barometer is a danger to people in
the same room when it breaks, and for years afterwards as the mercury
lodged in cracks evaporates.

I've never of a case of one breaking. Have you?

There's a few here.

https://www.health.ny.gov/environmen...ercury/mercury
_spill_incidents.htm

So a handful of cases in the USA.

That's just one State.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:03:55 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:36:12 on Tue, 15 Nov
2016, d remarked:
If it boils slower you'll out less water in, and that's where the saving
comes from.

So its nothing to do with efficiency, its wishful thinking about human nature.

It's better than wishful thinking.

Yeah, right. Thats all it is without doing a scientific trial.

Many vacuum cleaners create more suction than necessary "because they
can".

Well if mine is anything to go by it doesn't create enough.

How many watts is it? Have you emptied the bag recently.

It doesn't have a bag and the container gets emptied frequently. Its 2000W
and yet still it won't suck up hairs and threads and similar things off
carpets.

--
Spud

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:04:40 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:40:45 on Tue, 15 Nov
2016, d remarked:
Are they? I don't remember anyone voting for Junker.

Bzzt - he's the President of the Commission, nothing to do with the
council of ministers.

Do tell us when this election was held, I must have missed it.

15th July 2014, he was elected by MEPs. Representative democracy.

I'll put it another way, who in THIS country voted for him?

British MEPs.

Which ones?

--
Spud