In article , d () wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2017 05:08:09 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 19:20:46 -0600
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:
Ultimately though, a networked systems is constrained by the speed
of data on a copper wire or fibre optic cable and thats capped by
physics.

How much of the networking isn't fibre these days? How much that isn't
won't

No idea, but BT tend to keep their cards close to their chest so only
they know the true ratio.

be by 2018? Compare 4G wireless data speeds with earlier generations.
Copper is just so passé.

You're confusing bandwidth with latency. They're not the same thing.

I don't think I am.

Well I'm not sure what you're saying about latency with 4G data speeds
compared to earlier generations then. Are you suggesting the extra data
speeds are down to the speed of light increasing and the signal getting
from the base station quicker? The time for a signal to reach a phone from
the base station is fixed and always will be. Ditto any signals going
down a fibre optic cable. The only difference in the latter is how quickly
a router can process and forward them but for this trivial amount of data
the transmission will be I/O bound, not CPU bound.

What I'm saying is that communications channels now being used are faster
than those in use since Oyster started. Full stop.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 02 Mar 2017 07:46:46 -0600
wrote:
What I'm saying is that communications channels now being used are faster
than those in use since Oyster started. Full stop.

You're still not really understanding what latency is. Never mind.

--
Spud

In message , at 07:46:46
on Thu, 2 Mar 2017, remarked:

You're confusing bandwidth with latency. They're not the same thing.

I don't think I am.

Well I'm not sure what you're saying about latency with 4G data speeds
compared to earlier generations then. Are you suggesting the extra data
speeds are down to the speed of light increasing and the signal getting
from the base station quicker? The time for a signal to reach a phone from
the base station is fixed and always will be. Ditto any signals going
down a fibre optic cable. The only difference in the latter is how quickly
a router can process and forward them but for this trivial amount of data
the transmission will be I/O bound, not CPU bound.

What I'm saying is that communications channels now being used are faster
than those in use since Oyster started. Full stop.

"Faster" is not a helpful word. Do you mean the end-to-end time (which
in any event is highly dependent on geography) or the delays in
processing packets at each node en route? I'm going to assume the "speed
of light" in the fibre doesn't change much.
--
Roland Perry

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Mar 2017 08:30:34 -0000, tim... wrote:


"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On 2017-03-01 18:53:00 +0000, tim... said:

especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of
individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied

seems like a recipe for disaster in the making

That is not how capping works. Capping works by stopping taking money
when the cap has been reached.

not when it reconciled overnight [1] in the back office, it doesn't

[1] which is the proposed plan (apparently)

It's not really either. If you make more than one journey on a contacless
card in a day you only get one charge.

When you use a brand new card a 10p authorisation, but not charge, is
made against the account when you first touch in. Nothing else reaches
your account until the end of the day when a single charge for the sum
of all the journeys made is collected and the 10p authorisation cancelled.

so what happens in the back office if the charge for 28.60 (the cap for
Shenfield to Zone 1) is rejected?

do I get free travel for the day

tim

In message , at 15:09:58 on Thu, 2 Mar 2017,
tim... remarked:

When you use a brand new card a 10p authorisation, but not charge, is
made against the account when you first touch in. Nothing else reaches
your account until the end of the day when a single charge for the sum
of all the journeys made is collected and the 10p authorisation cancelled.

so what happens in the back office if the charge for 28.60 (the cap for
Shenfield to Zone 1) is rejected?

do I get free travel for the day

No, you might get an unauthorised overdraft on your credit card, and
quite likely a penalty charge from the card company.

And TfL will probably blacklist the card, so it won't work "tomorrow".
--
Roland Perry

On 02.03.2017 7:34 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:09:58 on Thu, 2 Mar 2017,
tim... remarked:

When you use a brand new card a 10p authorisation, but not charge, is
made against the account when you first touch in. Nothing else reaches
your account until the end of the day when a single charge for the sum
of all the journeys made is collected and the 10p authorisation cancelled.

so what happens in the back office if the charge for 28.60 (the cap for
Shenfield to Zone 1) is rejected?

do I get free travel for the day

No, you might get an unauthorised overdraft on your credit card, and
quite likely a penalty charge from the card company.

Plenty of accounts/cards do not permit an account to go into overdraft (and
yes, they do have contactless.)

And TfL will probably blacklist the card, so it won't work "tomorrow".

Seems likely.

On 02/03/2017 14:03, d wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2017 07:46:46 -0600
wrote:
What I'm saying is that communications channels now being used are faster
than those in use since Oyster started. Full stop.

You're still not really understanding what latency is. Never mind.

Indeed - although he confusingly raises 4G (which I don't believe is
greatly used by Oyster readers and gates) as an example.

The design principles of 4G were for both higher bandwidth AND lower
latency. The latter was achieved through removing 'hops' within the
core network and various forms of protocol conversion that held up the
throughput of data packets.

I still fail to see how Moore's law is helping with the tiny amount of
processing needed for Oyster/contactless though - it's got to be all
about latency rather than the millions of instructions that could be run
through during the 300ms or so when the card is in communication with
the reader.

On 02/03/2017 18:58, Clank wrote:
On 02.03.2017 7:34 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:09:58 on Thu, 2 Mar
2017, tim... remarked:

When you use a brand new card a 10p authorisation, but not charge, is
made against the account when you first touch in. Nothing else reaches
your account until the end of the day when a single charge for the sum
of all the journeys made is collected and the 10p authorisation
cancelled.

so what happens in the back office if the charge for 28.60 (the cap
for Shenfield to Zone 1) is rejected?

do I get free travel for the day

No, you might get an unauthorised overdraft on your credit card, and
quite likely a penalty charge from the card company.

Plenty of accounts/cards do not permit an account to go into overdraft (and
yes, they do have contactless.)


And TfL will probably blacklist the card, so it won't work "tomorrow".

Seems likely.

For some definiton of "tomorrow"!

Due to a bank foul up my credit card that was auto-topup linked to my
Oyster card was deleted by the bank (yes - I do mean deleted - they
could no longer find any evidence of it in their systems apart from my
credit card bill) and TfL spent almost 6 weeks merrily letting my use my
Oyster card (and applying 2 auto-topups that obviously failed) before
letting me know about it. They then immediately took 3 topups (the
third was due) when I updated the card details.

In message , at 11:11:09 on Fri, 3 Mar
2017, Someone Somewhere remarked:

And TfL will probably blacklist the

credit

card, so it won't work "tomorrow".

Seems likely.

For some definiton of "tomorrow"!

Due to a bank foul up my credit card that was auto-topup linked to my
Oyster card
******

Two very different systems.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:09:58 on Thu, 2 Mar 2017,
tim... remarked:

When you use a brand new card a 10p authorisation, but not charge, is
made against the account when you first touch in. Nothing else reaches
your account until the end of the day when a single charge for the sum
of all the journeys made is collected and the 10p authorisation
cancelled.

so what happens in the back office if the charge for 28.60 (the cap for
Shenfield to Zone 1) is rejected?

do I get free travel for the day

No, you might get an unauthorised overdraft on your credit card, and quite
likely a penalty charge from the card company.

if you got these it wouldn't be rejected, would it?

The two outcomes are mutually exclusive.

And TfL will probably blacklist the card, so it won't work "tomorrow".

I didn't expect to perpetrate this "scam" using the same card every day. I
had envisaged the need to have multiple cards (though haven't yet worked out
how to acquire sufficient multiple cards)

tim