On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:12:35 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at
10:01:56 on Mon, 10 Apr 2017, michael adams
remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?

You are assuming they have such trains for the stretch from Acton Town
to Rayners Lane.

They do, of course.

In article ,
(michael adams) wrote:

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded numerous
committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have wrap around
windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better view the Essex
countryside. Unfortunately it was only after the new stock came on stream
that it was realised that in the absence of air-conditioning the insides
of the car became unbearably hot in sunny weather. Like little greenhouses
in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So that as result all the windows ended
up tinted. Which while maybe looking stylish to types attracted to that
sort of thing had the unfortunate result that passengers standing outside
on the platform are unable to see inside and which carriages are full and
which are empty. One possible solution might be to blank out the
additional window area with opaque film do reducing it to what it was
before. However that's unlikely to happen as it would be a living
testament to the monumental cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all
levels of LT management. Instead Central Line passengers are going to have
to suffer a situation where they can't see inside a train before boarding
for the next, what 40 years ?

Hey! Less of the ********, please! An advantage of windows going up into the
roof space is that passengers can see out at stations more easily and see
which station they are at. The original Victoria Line 1967 stock introduced
the idea after trials on a 1938 stock car after the War. I can see this is
less of an issue with modern passenger information systems which announce
each station but does the 1992 stock have such systems?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 09:00:44 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(michael adams) wrote:

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded numerous
committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have wrap around
windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better view the Essex
countryside. Unfortunately it was only after the new stock came on stream
that it was realised that in the absence of air-conditioning the insides
of the car became unbearably hot in sunny weather. Like little greenhouses
in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So that as result all the windows ended
up tinted. Which while maybe looking stylish to types attracted to that
sort of thing had the unfortunate result that passengers standing outside
on the platform are unable to see inside and which carriages are full and
which are empty. One possible solution might be to blank out the
additional window area with opaque film do reducing it to what it was
before. However that's unlikely to happen as it would be a living
testament to the monumental cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all
levels of LT management. Instead Central Line passengers are going to have
to suffer a situation where they can't see inside a train before boarding
for the next, what 40 years ?

Hey! Less of the ********, please! An advantage of windows going up into the
roof space is that passengers can see out at stations more easily and see
which station they are at. The original Victoria Line 1967 stock introduced
the idea after trials on a 1938 stock car after the War. I can see this is
less of an issue with modern passenger information systems which announce
each station but does the 1992 stock have such systems?

The current system is audio-only, but digital information displays are
apparently on the way.

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOT...6:TEXT:EN:HTML

I suppose they're needed for compliance with the new 2020 PRM TSI
rules, though it seems like an unnecessary enhancement so late in the
life of the trains.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 09:00:44 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(michael adams) wrote:

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded
numerous committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have
wrap around windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better
view the Essex countryside. Unfortunately it was only after the new
stock came on stream that it was realised that in the absence of
air-conditioning the insides of the car became unbearably hot in sunny
weather. Like little greenhouses in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So
that as result all the windows ended up tinted. Which while maybe
looking stylish to types attracted to that sort of thing had the
unfortunate result that passengers standing outside on the platform
are unable to see inside and which carriages are full and which are
empty. One possible solution might be to blank out the additional
window area with opaque film do reducing it to what it was before.
However that's unlikely to happen as it would be a living testament to
the monumental cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all levels of
LT management. Instead Central Line passengers are going to have to
suffer a situation where they can't see inside a train before boarding
for the next, what 40 years ?

Hey! Less of the ********, please! An advantage of windows going up into
the roof space is that passengers can see out at stations more easily and
see which station they are at. The original Victoria Line 1967 stock
introduced the idea after trials on a 1938 stock car after the War. I can
see this is less of an issue with modern passenger information systems
which announce each station but does the 1992 stock have such systems?

The current system is audio-only, but digital information displays are
apparently on the way.

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOT...6:TEXT:EN:HTML

I suppose they're needed for compliance with the new 2020 PRM TSI
rules, though it seems like an unnecessary enhancement so late in the
life of the trains.

Not that late surely? If memory serves they're due for retractioning too.
When are they due for replacement?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 09:00:44 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(michael adams) wrote:

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded
numerous committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have
wrap around windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better
view the Essex countryside. Unfortunately it was only after the new
stock came on stream that it was realised that in the absence of
air-conditioning the insides of the car became unbearably hot in sunny
weather. Like little greenhouses in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So
that as result all the windows ended up tinted. Which while maybe
looking stylish to types attracted to that sort of thing had the
unfortunate result that passengers standing outside on the platform
are unable to see inside and which carriages are full and which are
empty. One possible solution might be to blank out the additional
window area with opaque film do reducing it to what it was before.
However that's unlikely to happen as it would be a living testament to
the monumental cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all levels of
LT management. Instead Central Line passengers are going to have to
suffer a situation where they can't see inside a train before boarding
for the next, what 40 years ?

Hey! Less of the ********, please! An advantage of windows going up into
the roof space is that passengers can see out at stations more easily and
see which station they are at. The original Victoria Line 1967 stock
introduced the idea after trials on a 1938 stock car after the War. I can
see this is less of an issue with modern passenger information systems
which announce each station but does the 1992 stock have such systems?

The current system is audio-only, but digital information displays are
apparently on the way.

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOT...6:TEXT:EN:HTML

I suppose they're needed for compliance with the new 2020 PRM TSI
rules, though it seems like an unnecessary enhancement so late in the
life of the trains.

Not that late surely? If memory serves they're due for retractioning too.
When are they due for replacement?

They're not 'due' for replacement for another 20+ years, but probably
*will* be replaced within 15 years. LU would like to be shot of them, and
they'll go as part of the NTfL programme. So they'll probably do just under
40 years, compared to about 50 for the 1973 and A stock. The 72TS may
manage an amazing 60 years!

In message , at 14:28:28 on
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Recliner remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?

You are assuming they have such trains for the stretch from Acton Town
to Rayners Lane.

They do, of course.

Others say they only have them for the Central and Met.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:28:28 on
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Recliner remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?

You are assuming they have such trains for the stretch from Acton Town
to Rayners Lane.

They do, of course.

Others say they only have them for the Central and Met.

Yes, but the A-stock RATs (now replaced by two newer D-stock RATs) covered
that section. Here's a pic (not mine) of the A-stock RAT at Ealing Common,
alongside an in-service D78:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5787/...af4ff4_o_d.jpg

On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 00:14:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
They're not 'due' for replacement for another 20+ years, but probably
*will* be replaced within 15 years. LU would like to be shot of them, and
they'll go as part of the NTfL programme. So they'll probably do just under
40 years, compared to about 50 for the 1973 and A stock. The 72TS may
manage an amazing 60 years!

I actually rather like them. Good acceleration and good use of interior
space especially with the middle seats pulled back right to the window. Its
something the designers of the 2009 stock should have looked at before they
wasted god knows how many square feet with unnecessary wall cladding behind
the seats which could be moved a good 3-4 inches back each side with a
resulting increase in standing room.

--
Spud