Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

http://eorailway.co.uk/events/real-ale/

28th, 29th and 30th July 2017.

Celebrating 60 years (apparently) since the Epping-North Weald-Ongar line first opened.

Steam Trains, of course, but the poster in London Drinker shows what looks like an old solver Northern Line train - was it '68 stock?

The price, whatever it is, includes heritage buses from Epping and Shenfield.

So there is a lot there for transport and beer fans.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 05:15:47 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote:

http://eorailway.co.uk/events/real-ale/

28th, 29th and 30th July 2017.

Celebrating 60 years (apparently) since the Epping-North Weald-Ongar line first opened.

Steam Trains, of course, but the poster in London Drinker shows what looks like an old solver Northern Line train - was it '68 stock?

The price, whatever it is, includes heritage buses from Epping and Shenfield.

So there is a lot there for transport and beer fans.

Are you serious?

This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

It's a nice little railway, steam & diesel traction with a very useful
connecting bus service to get you there from Epping Underground
Station & possibly Shenfield too.

The buses are around because the railway's owner owns the bus company
too...........

No idea about beer but theres a nice pub near Ongar Station.

DC

---
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Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 2017\06\08 13:15, Offramp wrote:
http://eorailway.co.uk/events/real-ale/

28th, 29th and 30th July 2017.

Celebrating 60 years (apparently) since the Epping-North Weald-Ongar line first opened.

It was *electrified* approximately 60 years ago on 18 November 1957. It
opened 152 years ago and was taken over by LT approximately 68 years ago.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Thursday, 8 June 2017 19:36:23 UTC+1, David C wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 05:15:47 -0700 (PDT), Offramp

http://eorailway.co.uk/events/real-ale/

28th, 29th and 30th July 2017.

Celebrating 60 years (apparently) since the Epping-North Weald-Ongar line first opened.

Steam Trains, of course, but the poster in London Drinker shows what looks like an old solver Northern Line train - was it '68 stock?

The price, whatever it is, includes heritage buses from Epping and Shenfield.

So there is a lot there for transport and beer fans.

Are you serious?

Here is the article, from the current London Drinker:

The Epping Ongar Railway will present over 65 beers at
its summer festival this July to celebrate 60 years since
the tube train first trundled through the Essex countryside.
What could be a better setting for a good ale than a
panoramic view of the rolling hills and unique woodlands of
Epping Forest? From 28 to 30 July, North Weald station and
the heritage trains of the Epping Ongar Railway will again
ring out to the sound of clinking glasses. Our 5th beer
festival is planned to be the biggest and the best yet.
What’s more, with regular and direct vintage bus services
from Epping Underground and Shenfield National Rail, the
festival is one of the most accessible rail ale festivals near
London.
The team started planning once the 83 casks from their
2016 festival had all been collected. Taking inspiration from
the 60th anniversary of the first tube train arriving in Ongar,
beers with connections to Essex and London will feature
heavily, including some brewed especially for the event.
Once again in the evenings, the hills will come alive with the
sound of music, including at least one dedicated music train
each night. A full list of all the beer, cider, food and soft
drinks on offer will be published on the railway’s website in
advance.
As usual, the funds raised will be ploughed into
supporting the operation and maintenance of the classic
trains, some of which are now approaching 100 years old.
Additionally, the festival will be supporting a locally based
charity, Canalability, which organises broad beam canal boat
experiences for disabled and disadvantaged people.
For further information and to book tickets, take a look at
www.eorailway.co.uk.
Alan Perryman

see http://www.westmiddx-camra.org.uk/LD/2017/LDvol39_3.pdf

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:36:21 +0100
David C wrote:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with
almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 2017\06\09 09:44, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through
service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might
by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was
part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with
almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Or Shenfield, which has much faster trains to London.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:44:06 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with

~6000 people according to wikipedia, about the same as little chalfont on
the Met.

almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Yes, the journey was slow because the trains were slow, infrequent and the
journey involved a change. If it had a similar service level to Epping however
I suspect it might be a different story. I doubt the traffic around Brentwood
is much fun and I suspect the parking at the station isn't free either assuming
there are any free spaces.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 10:17:56 on Fri, 9 Jun 2017,
Basil Jet remarked:

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow
with almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to
drive to Brentwood station.

Or Shenfield, which has much faster trains to London.

Having lived in the area for many years, Brentwood has a bigger and
cheaper car park, and more trains (if you count only the fasts at
Shenfield, and if you want a slow then why go out of your way to
Shenfield in the first place).
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:44:06 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with

~6000 people according to wikipedia, about the same as little chalfont on
the Met.

almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Yes, the journey was slow because the trains were slow, infrequent and the
journey involved a change. If it had a similar service level to Epping however
I suspect it might be a different story. I doubt the traffic around Brentwood
is much fun and I suspect the parking at the station isn't free either assuming
there are any free spaces.


I think the Green Belt put paid to that branch, just as it killed off other
remote Tube expansion plans.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 09:34:18 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:44:06 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it
was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with

~6000 people according to wikipedia, about the same as little chalfont on
the Met.

The thing is, Little Chalfont isn't the only railhead on that stretch of
the Met.

almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Yes, the journey was slow because the trains were slow, infrequent and the
journey involved a change. If it had a similar service level to Epping however
I suspect it might be a different story. I doubt the traffic around Brentwood
is much fun and I suspect the parking at the station isn't free either assuming
there are any free spaces.

It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:48:22 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:48:22 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's ï½£4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Thanks to the Green Belt, the small number of people in the catchment area
wasn't going to grow, and there are better ways to commute from the wider
area.

The line would have needed serious investment in order to run more
frequent, full length, direct London trains. Would you, as a London
taxpayer, wanted to have paid for more Essex residents to have heavily
subsidised travel into the already packed core Central line? Wouldn't your
generous offer of a large personal donation be better spent increasing the
central area capacity?

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 11:06:53 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
The line would have needed serious investment in order to run more
frequent, full length, direct London trains. Would you, as a London
taxpayer, wanted to have paid for more Essex residents to have heavily
subsidised travel into the already packed core Central line? Wouldn't your
generous offer of a large personal donation be better spent increasing the
central area capacity?

Given there's currently a very expensive and fairly pointless scheme to link
the Met to watford junction I don't think improving Ongar would have been
completely beyond the pale especially if Essex CC had coughed up some dough.
I suspect a large number of the outer areas of the tube dont pay their way
and if you just concentrated on core services you'd end up with something like
the Paris metro - great service in the centre, not so much in the suburbs.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 09.06.17 10:45, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:44:06 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with

~6000 people according to wikipedia, about the same as little chalfont on
the Met.

almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Yes, the journey was slow because the trains were slow, infrequent and the
journey involved a change. If it had a similar service level to Epping however
I suspect it might be a different story. I doubt the traffic around Brentwood
is much fun and I suspect the parking at the station isn't free either assuming
there are any free spaces.


I think the Green Belt put paid to that branch, just as it killed off other
remote Tube expansion plans.


Like what?

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 12:53:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 11:06:53 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
The line would have needed serious investment in order to run more
frequent, full length, direct London trains. Would you, as a London
taxpayer, wanted to have paid for more Essex residents to have heavily
subsidised travel into the already packed core Central line? Wouldn't your
generous offer of a large personal donation be better spent increasing the
central area capacity?

Given there's currently a very expensive and fairly pointless scheme to link
the Met to watford junction I don't think improving Ongar would have been
completely beyond the pale especially if Essex CC had coughed up some dough.
I suspect a large number of the outer areas of the tube dont pay their way
and if you just concentrated on core services you'd end up with something like
the Paris metro - great service in the centre, not so much in the suburbs.

The LU policy is now to concentrate on the core area, and new
extensions are likely only to be in urban areas within London, not
rural branches. Haven't you noticed that the Watford Met extension has
stalled?

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 10:50:26 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:

It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Even if the service is hopelessly uneconomic and requiring a huge
subsidy?
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:14:14 +0100, "
wrote:

On 09.06.17 10:45, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:44:06 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:40:15 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
This was the furthest outpost of the Central Line, served by 59/60
stock, even though it's always been a country branch line.

Given the distances people commute now, I can't help wondering if LU had
upgraded the line and given it a half decent , possibly even through service
instead of treating it like some part time afterthought, there might by now
be considerably more passengers on it than there were back when it was part of
LU. Ongar is a reasonably sized small town which if south of london on a
railway would be prime commuter belt territory.

Ongar's not as big as you think, and the rail journey was very slow with

~6000 people according to wikipedia, about the same as little chalfont on
the Met.

almost no additional catchment until Epping. It's far easier to drive to
Brentwood station.

Yes, the journey was slow because the trains were slow, infrequent and the
journey involved a change. If it had a similar service level to Epping however
I suspect it might be a different story. I doubt the traffic around Brentwood
is much fun and I suspect the parking at the station isn't free either assuming
there are any free spaces.


I think the Green Belt put paid to that branch, just as it killed off other
remote Tube expansion plans.


Like what?

Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:15:56 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 12:53:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
Given there's currently a very expensive and fairly pointless scheme to link
the Met to watford junction I don't think improving Ongar would have been
completely beyond the pale especially if Essex CC had coughed up some dough.
I suspect a large number of the outer areas of the tube dont pay their way
and if you just concentrated on core services you'd end up with something like
the Paris metro - great service in the centre, not so much in the suburbs.

The LU policy is now to concentrate on the core area, and new
extensions are likely only to be in urban areas within London, not
rural branches. Haven't you noticed that the Watford Met extension has
stalled?

I not up to date on it but I can't say I'm surprised. I can't see any viable
case for it. No one travelling into central london from watford junction is
going go around the houses on the met if they can get the Overground direct
and I can't imagine there's a huge demand for commuters to/from the western
area of the met to there.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:28:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:50:26 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:

It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Even if the service is hopelessly uneconomic and requiring a huge
subsidy?

You mean like Mill Hill East was on the northern line for years until new
estates were built there?

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted move
ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only has bus
connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A branch of the
northern line would transform it into one of the most desirable suburbs in
London (given the view and other facilities) and probably send the house
prices stratospheric.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:54:19 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted move
ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only has bus
connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A branch of the
northern line would transform it into one of the most desirable suburbs in
London (given the view and other facilities) and probably send the house
prices stratospheric.

Yes, I think that extension should have happened.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 14:50:32 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Even if the service is hopelessly uneconomic and requiring a huge
subsidy?

You mean like Mill Hill East was on the northern line for years until new
estates were built there?

Planning law has moved on.
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:33:09 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:50:32 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:
It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Even if the service is hopelessly uneconomic and requiring a huge
subsidy?

You mean like Mill Hill East was on the northern line for years until new
estates were built there?

Planning law has moved on.

The point is that just because part of the tube runs at a loss doesn't mean
it should be closed down. Its a public service, not a for profit corporation.

--
Spud

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 09.06.17 16:12, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:54:19 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted move
ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only has bus
connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A branch of the
northern line would transform it into one of the most desirable suburbs in
London (given the view and other facilities) and probably send the house
prices stratospheric.

Yes, I think that extension should have happened.

Any chance now of reviving that project?

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:51:58 +0100, "
wrote:

On 09.06.17 16:12, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:54:19 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted move
ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only has bus
connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A branch of the
northern line would transform it into one of the most desirable suburbs in
London (given the view and other facilities) and probably send the house
prices stratospheric.

Yes, I think that extension should have happened.

Any chance now of reviving that project?

No, it's been superseded by other idea.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 15:44:54 on Fri, 9 Jun
2017, d remarked:

It wouldn't be free at Ongar, either (it's £4.30 at Little Chalfont), if
it had the pipedream service you advocate.

Obviously its a pipedream since its never going to happen now. No harm in
playing what-ifs though. Improved train services tend to drive greater
passenger numbers. Removing a train service from a town even if it is only
6K people is a backwards step and not something a public body should have
done IMO.

Even if the service is hopelessly uneconomic and requiring a huge
subsidy?

You mean like Mill Hill East was on the northern line for years until new
estates were built there?

Planning law has moved on.

The point is that just because part of the tube runs at a loss doesn't mean
it should be closed down. Its a public service, not a for profit corporation.

Still needs to serve a cost-effective portion of the public.
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 09.06.17 16:57, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:51:58 +0100, "
wrote:

On 09.06.17 16:12, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:54:19 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted move
ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only has bus
connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A branch of the
northern line would transform it into one of the most desirable suburbs in
London (given the view and other facilities) and probably send the house
prices stratospheric.

Yes, I think that extension should have happened.

Any chance now of reviving that project?

No, it's been superseded by other idea.

Such as?

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

It wasn't closed by London Transport. The tube never went there.
London Underground took over only the stretch between Highgate
and Barnet.

Alexander Palace was the terminus of the branch line from Finsbury
Park and was closed by British Rail in the early/mid 1950s. The track bed
between Finsbury Park and Highgate is now a public footpath.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

d;162167 Wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:-
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.-

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted sighted
move ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that only
has bus connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A
branch of the northern line would transform it into one of the most
desirable suburbs in London (given the view and other facilities) and
probably send the house prices stratospheric.

It wasn't closed by London Transport. The tube never went there.
London Underground took over only the stretch between Highgate
and Barnet.

Alexander Palace was the terminus of the branch line from Finsbury
Park and was closed by British Rail in the early/mid 1950s. The track bed
between Finsbury Park and Highgate is now a public footpath.

That's a bit economical with the truth. It was included in the 1935-40 plan
and considerable works were done by London Transport, including Highgate
station, cabling and some conductor rail installations. The residual train
service was provided by BR but then so was it to Epping and Ongar until 1957.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

With all due respect, the fact that London Transport did some
preparatory work does not mean very much. That work came to
nothing. London Underground did not take over the line to
Alexander Palace which was closed by BR in July 1954.

Spud's point is that closing the line was foolish. Certainly today,
in today's political climate, no line would be closed. In 1954
attitudes and assumptions were quite different.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m...ll/index.shtml
provides a good thumbnail history.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:

With all due respect, the fact that London Transport did some
preparatory work does not mean very much. That work came to
nothing. London Underground did not take over the line to
Alexander Palace which was closed by BR in July 1954.

It was a lot more than preparatory work. Have you ever looked at Highgate
station? It was close to ready for trains to run. London Underground didn't
take over the Ongar train service before 1957 but they had taken over the
line long before then.

Spud's point is that closing the line was foolish. Certainly today,
in today's political climate, no line would be closed. In 1954
attitudes and assumptions were quite different.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m...ll/index.shtml
provides a good thumbnail history.

Yes, some stupidly short-sighted decisions were taken up to the 1970s.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 05:42:17
on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, remarked:

some stupidly short-sighted decisions were taken up to the 1970s.

Some might say failing to build Ringways 1-4 was one of those!
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
05:42:17 on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, remarked:

some stupidly short-sighted decisions were taken up to the 1970s.

Some might say failing to build Ringways 1-4 was one of those!

Certainly not! I never knew you were such a petrolhead.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

In message , at 08:01:41
on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, remarked:

some stupidly short-sighted decisions were taken up to the 1970s.

Some might say failing to build Ringways 1-4 was one of those!

Certainly not! I never knew you were such a petrolhead.

I'm not a petrolhead as such, but sometimes private cars are the least
worst way to empower the requisite number of journeys.
--
Roland Perry

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 11.06.17 10:28, Robin9 wrote:
;162178 Wrote:
In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:
-
d;162167 Wrote: -
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:-
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.-

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted
sighted
move ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that
only
has bus connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A
branch of the northern line would transform it into one of the most
desirable suburbs in London (given the view and other facilities) and
probably send the house prices stratospheric.-

It wasn't closed by London Transport. The tube never went there.
London Underground took over only the stretch between Highgate
and Barnet.

Alexander Palace was the terminus of the branch line from Finsbury
Park and was closed by British Rail in the early/mid 1950s. The track
bed
between Finsbury Park and Highgate is now a public footpath.-

That's a bit economical with the truth. It was included in the 1935-40
plan
and considerable works were done by London Transport, including Highgate

station, cabling and some conductor rail installations. The residual
train
service was provided by BR but then so was it to Epping and Ongar until
1957.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

With all due respect, the fact that London Transport did some
preparatory work does not mean very much. That work came to
nothing. London Underground did not take over the line to
Alexander Palace which was closed by BR in July 1954.

Spud's point is that closing the line was foolish. Certainly today,
in today's political climate, no line would be closed. In 1954
attitudes and assumptions were quite different.

Reminds me of South Kentish Town; They closed the station on a whim,
AIUI, due to low passenger volumes.

I would ask about the prospects of reactivating that station, but I know
that they are less than zero.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival
 

On 11.06.17 21:03, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 11.06.17 10:28, Robin9 wrote:
;162178 Wrote:
In article ,
(Robin9) wrote:
-
d;162167 Wrote: -
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:50:24 +0100
Recliner wrote:-
Central Line to Denham; Northern Line to Bushey Heath and Alexandra
Palace; Met Line to Quainton Road, Brill and Verney Junction.-

Ripping up the line to alexandra palace was IMO the most shorted
sighted
move ever made by LT. Muswell Hill is a buzzing crowded suburb that
only
has bus connections which are utterly hopeless in the rush hour. A
branch of the northern line would transform it into one of the most
desirable suburbs in London (given the view and other facilities) and
probably send the house prices stratospheric.-

It wasn't closed by London Transport. The tube never went there.
London Underground took over only the stretch between Highgate
and Barnet.

Alexander Palace was the terminus of the branch line from Finsbury
Park and was closed by British Rail in the early/mid 1950s. The track
bed
between Finsbury Park and Highgate is now a public footpath.-

That's a bit economical with the truth. It was included in the 1935-40
plan
and considerable works were done by London Transport, including Highgate

station, cabling and some conductor rail installations. The residual
train
service was provided by BR but then so was it to Epping and Ongar until
1957.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

With all due respect, the fact that London Transport did some
preparatory work does not mean very much. That work came to
nothing. London Underground did not take over the line to
Alexander Palace which was closed by BR in July 1954.

Spud's point is that closing the line was foolish. Certainly today,
in today's political climate, no line would be closed. In 1954
attitudes and assumptions were quite different.

Reminds me of South Kentish Town; They closed the station on a whim,
AIUI, due to low passenger volumes.

I would ask about the prospects of reactivating that station, but I know
that they are less than zero.

Yes, I don't think any of the Tube stations that were closed early in their
lives because of low traffic have been reopened. Perhaps the one with the
best, albeit still very low, chance of reopening is York Road on the Picc,
thanks to all the new developments on the former Kings Cross railway lands.
The demand would be there, but the cost of reopening it to modern standards
would be high

Well, the matrix for the station is there -- at least part of it.

and the extra stop would slow down evry train on the line.

So, adjust the schedules.

Epping to Ongar QEII Beer Festival