Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\14 09:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!


At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?

Obvious to the guy sat at the pointy end! But in general, the front of
something is the side that's facing me, and the back is the side that's
facing away from me. It's a bit different with cars because they are
asymmetrical: the business end is always the front even if it's facing
away from you. The front of a train coming into the terminus is the back
leaving, so while it's stationary it doesn't have a front or back.


The front of a stationary train is the end towards which it will next be
moving, surely? If it's a through station, or you enter at the middle of
the platform, I can understand the confusion - but surely walking onto the
platform past the end of the track and a huge set of stop blocks should
help you know which way the train will move?

Perhaps the solution we need is the Swiss 'Sektoren A B C D' or even BR's
own Gold, Orange, Blue etc zones, the last remnants of which have recently
been erased from the GWML.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

In article , (Certes) wrote:

On 14/08/17 11:00, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\14 09:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front
8 coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!

At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near'
and 'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the
middle, or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not
your train is already present when you arrive on the platform
(especially if it's an unfamiliar location and you don't know which
direction the train will depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get
to the platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly
obvious descriptors?

Obvious to the guy sat at the pointy end! But in general, the front of
something is the side that's facing me, and the back is the side that's
facing away from me. It's a bit different with cars because they are
asymmetrical: the business end is always the front even if it's facing
away from you. The front of a train coming into the terminus is the
back leaving, so while it's stationary it doesn't have a front or back.

There's also the issue that I think Roland raised: if you're walking
from the back of the train, how do you know when you've got to the front
eight cars unless there's a sign (on the platform or train door display)
to tell you? You might remember how many cars you've walked past, but
how do you know how many lie ahead in a long platform.

Regarding the front or back, I'm always amazed at how many people
(usually female) board a train at the terminus and then ask which way
it'll be going.

Returning to (most of) the subject line, in my commuting days the
announcements at Waterloo (Main) were quite clear: "The front 8 coaches,
furthest from the ticket barrier" formed the Basingstoke stopper. At
Woking, the rear 4 were detached very smartly to form the Alton service.

I agree that it's more of a problem where there are no buffer stops.
Platforms 1a and 1b are a good attempt but the boundary between them
will shift between trains. I've also seen coloured zones, but I think
only to distinguish intercity[1] carriages with the same destination but
different accommodation.

Many (CHX-)Waterloo East-Ashford services are for "Ramsgate & Ramsgate".
They split at Ashford into a main train for Ramsgate via Canterbury and
a portion for Ramsgate via Dover. That must cause confusion.

[1] generic term, but including the late InterCity

The 1814 from Kings Cross to King's Lynn causes confusion too. The rear
4-car unit of three is detached at Royston and follows the rest as far as
Ely, stopping at all stations. Passengers for Cambridge to Ely get on the
back unit at King's Cross not realising they get a slower journey. If they
want Cambridge North which the Lynn portion doesn't stop at, they are still
better off changing cross-platform at Cambridge to a Norwich train than
using the back portion.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 16.08.2017 6:23 PM, wrote:
On 16.08.17 16:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
In article , Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:
The front of a stationary train is the end towards which it will next be
moving, surely? If it's a through station, or you enter at the middle of
the platform, I can understand the confusion - but surely walking onto
the platform past the end of the track and a huge set of stop blocks
should help you know which way the train will move?

When I worked at Victoria I was often asked, by someone standing right by
the stop blocks, which way would the train be going.


Indeed. It's a staple amusement on the 'railway staff laugh at stuff
passengers say' groups/forums.

My personal favourite is being asked, at a terminal platform (passenger had
walked past the buffer stops), which of the two trains would be going
first. (Yes sir this one's going to grow legs, climb onto the platform,
walk around the other one and jump back down). The fact that the two trains
were going to totally different destinations didn't seem to matter...


Anna Noyd-Dryver

I was on a first-generation M-series train out of Grand Central
Terminal, on the Hudson Line. Those trains are the ones with the
half-width cabs, giving passengers a full forward view.

Anyway, I am standing there and a yuppie approaches me and demands that
I move as it wanted to use the toilet. It was only after explained that
the toilet was actually a cab and that this was the train's front that
it realised the mistake.

Talk about oblivious to one's surroundings.


It? Really?

We're into dangerous sociopath territory here...

On 16.08.2017 6:25 PM, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\16 03:04, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\15 19:14, wrote:
In article , Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:
The front of a stationary train is the end towards which it will next be
moving, surely? If it's a through station, or you enter at the middle of
the platform, I can understand the confusion - but surely walking onto
the platform past the end of the track and a huge set of stop blocks
should help you know which way the train will move?

When I worked at Victoria I was often asked, by someone standing right by
the stop blocks, which way would the train be going.

Surely they meant "Is this train with Sutton on the front going via
Hackbridge or Waddon?"

Incidentally, by "front" I meant the end facing the buffers... see what
I mean about the confusion. For me, the front of a stationary train is
the end facing me! I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Since trains usually only have doors open on one side, they could just
say "the left end" and "the right end". This tells you where on the
platform to stand before the train is even in sight, and before you know
which way the train will arrive, which way it will depart, whether the
train normally reverses, and whether these things have changed today
because of engineering work.


If the platform has two faces you'll get people going to the wrong platform
if you try 'left end/right end'.

I think at Greenford the doors used to open on both sides, but I'm not
sure they do that any more, and I doubt there are ever two trains in
Greenford platform at the same time.

They only open one side.

Are there any stations where NR
trains have doors open on both sides?


Unlikely, as it'd need dispatch staff on both sides. Also on most modern
stock (certainly the ex BR power door units) the guard's 'door close'
button closes the doors on both sides of the train, and you can't watch
both sides at once.

I thought I saw boarding/alighting on both sides somewhere on NR, maybe
Doncaster... Might have been old stock though.

Of course, non NR, it's common on airport terminal shuttle type services.
And don't DLR trains open the doors on both sides at Canary Wharf?

(And here on the continent with the old style speed activated door locking
and a rather more "self preservation is your own problem" safety culture,
it's quite common to use the doors on both sides to board/alight whether
there's a platform on both sides or not...)

Clank wrote:
On 16.08.2017 6:25 PM, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\16 03:04, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\15 19:14, wrote:
In article , Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:
The front of a stationary train is the end towards which it will next be
moving, surely? If it's a through station, or you enter at the middle of
the platform, I can understand the confusion - but surely walking onto
the platform past the end of the track and a huge set of stop blocks
should help you know which way the train will move?

When I worked at Victoria I was often asked, by someone standing right by
the stop blocks, which way would the train be going.

Surely they meant "Is this train with Sutton on the front going via
Hackbridge or Waddon?"

Incidentally, by "front" I meant the end facing the buffers... see what
I mean about the confusion. For me, the front of a stationary train is
the end facing me! I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Since trains usually only have doors open on one side, they could just
say "the left end" and "the right end". This tells you where on the
platform to stand before the train is even in sight, and before you know
which way the train will arrive, which way it will depart, whether the
train normally reverses, and whether these things have changed today
because of engineering work.


If the platform has two faces you'll get people going to the wrong platform
if you try 'left end/right end'.

I think at Greenford the doors used to open on both sides, but I'm not
sure they do that any more, and I doubt there are ever two trains in
Greenford platform at the same time.

They only open one side.

Are there any stations where NR
trains have doors open on both sides?


Unlikely, as it'd need dispatch staff on both sides. Also on most modern
stock (certainly the ex BR power door units) the guard's 'door close'
button closes the doors on both sides of the train, and you can't watch
both sides at once.

I thought I saw boarding/alighting on both sides somewhere on NR, maybe
Doncaster... Might have been old stock though.

Of course, non NR, it's common on airport terminal shuttle type services.
And don't DLR trains open the doors on both sides at Canary Wharf?

(And here on the continent with the old style speed activated door locking
and a rather more "self preservation is your own problem" safety culture,
it's quite common to use the doors on both sides to board/alight whether
there's a platform on both sides or not...)


Ah, the Asian approach:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/12906280495/in/album-72157641801963124/lightbox/