On 13/08/2017 20:07, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 12:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:12:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 09:34, d wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 19:38:59 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 18:13, e27002 aurora wrote:
The platforms were the wrong height. Moreover, the track layout and
signalling may not have been appropriate for domestic traffic.
But, you are correct, in that after the international service moved to
Saint Pancras, DfT and Network Rail should have been considering
re-utilizing the station.


Who actually owned it?

British Railways Board after it closed. Don't know who owned it when it was
in service. However if network rail had asked to take it off their hands back
in 2007 I doubt there would have been too many objections.


There was for a while an idea that E* could use both terminals. Not
sure who dreamt that one up, possibly a southern edition of M Bell
(Tyneside) Ltd.

There was probably a reasonable argument to keep Waterloo in service for a
while after St P opened in case of teething problems either at the station
or on HS1 but I suppose the cost would have been prohibitive.o


It effectively was while HS1 was still in its testing phase but there
were proposals that it would be a good idea to continue a passenger
service into Waterloo for those who found the UndergrounD too exotic.


I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.


No advantage over conventional trains.

Would conventional trains from Waterloo have been able to use the Fawkham
Junction route to HS1? If not, their route to Ashford would surely be
slower?


Not sure it would have made a significant difference to the timings.
Also the Javelins didn't exist at the time.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Recliner wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 12:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:12:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 09:34, d wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 19:38:59 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 18:13, e27002 aurora wrote:
The platforms were the wrong height. Moreover, the track layout and
signalling may not have been appropriate for domestic traffic.
But, you are correct, in that after the international service moved to
Saint Pancras, DfT and Network Rail should have been considering
re-utilizing the station.


Who actually owned it?

British Railways Board after it closed. Don't know who owned it when it was
in service. However if network rail had asked to take it off their hands back
in 2007 I doubt there would have been too many objections.


There was for a while an idea that E* could use both terminals. Not
sure who dreamt that one up, possibly a southern edition of M Bell
(Tyneside) Ltd.

There was probably a reasonable argument to keep Waterloo in service for a
while after St P opened in case of teething problems either at the station
or on HS1 but I suppose the cost would have been prohibitive.o


It effectively was while HS1 was still in its testing phase but there
were proposals that it would be a good idea to continue a passenger
service into Waterloo for those who found the UndergrounD too exotic.


I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.

Weren't the Javelins years in the future back then? Also, most Eurostars
don't stop at Ashford.



They were certainly planned; timetables can be amended.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roger Lynn wrote:
On 13/08/17 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.

Would a Javelin have any advantage on that route over whatever third rail
stock usually operates in that region? Presumably both would be restricted
to the same line speed, which I believe wasn't very high when Eurostars than
that way?

Roger


Part of HS1 was open and used by E*s to Waterloo; I was envisioning that
395s would use HS1 and then follow the route that E* used during that time.
OTTOMH I forget the junction names involved.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 12:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:12:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 09:34, d wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 19:38:59 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 18:13, e27002 aurora wrote:
The platforms were the wrong height. Moreover, the track layout and
signalling may not have been appropriate for domestic traffic.
But, you are correct, in that after the international service moved to
Saint Pancras, DfT and Network Rail should have been considering
re-utilizing the station.


Who actually owned it?

British Railways Board after it closed. Don't know who owned it when it was
in service. However if network rail had asked to take it off their hands back
in 2007 I doubt there would have been too many objections.


There was for a while an idea that E* could use both terminals. Not
sure who dreamt that one up, possibly a southern edition of M Bell
(Tyneside) Ltd.

There was probably a reasonable argument to keep Waterloo in service for a
while after St P opened in case of teething problems either at the station
or on HS1 but I suppose the cost would have been prohibitive.o


It effectively was while HS1 was still in its testing phase but there
were proposals that it would be a good idea to continue a passenger
service into Waterloo for those who found the UndergrounD too exotic.


I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.


No advantage over conventional trains.


Other than use of HS1 for part of the journey, and that there are no trains
from Waterloo to Ashford...


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 20:07, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 12:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:12:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 09:34, d wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 19:38:59 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 18:13, e27002 aurora wrote:
The platforms were the wrong height. Moreover, the track layout and
signalling may not have been appropriate for domestic traffic.
But, you are correct, in that after the international service moved to
Saint Pancras, DfT and Network Rail should have been considering
re-utilizing the station.


Who actually owned it?

British Railways Board after it closed. Don't know who owned it when it was
in service. However if network rail had asked to take it off their hands back
in 2007 I doubt there would have been too many objections.


There was for a while an idea that E* could use both terminals. Not
sure who dreamt that one up, possibly a southern edition of M Bell
(Tyneside) Ltd.

There was probably a reasonable argument to keep Waterloo in service for a
while after St P opened in case of teething problems either at the station
or on HS1 but I suppose the cost would have been prohibitive.o


It effectively was while HS1 was still in its testing phase but there
were proposals that it would be a good idea to continue a passenger
service into Waterloo for those who found the UndergrounD too exotic.


I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.


No advantage over conventional trains.

Would conventional trains from Waterloo have been able to use the Fawkham
Junction route to HS1? If not, their route to Ashford would surely be
slower?


Not sure it would have made a significant difference to the timings.

Surely it would save at least 15 mins?

Also the Javelins didn't exist at the time.

Yes, as I pointed out earlier, they were years away; not sure if they'd
even been ordered back then.

In article , (Anna
Noyd-Dryver) wrote:

Roger Lynn wrote:
On 13/08/17 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who
felt disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET
Javelin from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at
Ashford.
Would a Javelin have any advantage on that route over whatever third
rail stock usually operates in that region? Presumably both would be
restricted to the same line speed, which I believe wasn't very high when
Eurostars than that way?

Part of HS1 was open and used by E*s to Waterloo; I was envisioning that
395s would use HS1 and then follow the route that E* used during that
time. OTTOMH I forget the junction names involved.

Fawkham Junction was involved at one end or the other of the link.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 20:07, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 12:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 11:12:53 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/08/2017 09:34, d wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 19:38:59 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/08/2017 18:13, e27002 aurora wrote:
The platforms were the wrong height. Moreover, the track layout and
signalling may not have been appropriate for domestic traffic.
But, you are correct, in that after the international service moved to
Saint Pancras, DfT and Network Rail should have been considering
re-utilizing the station.


Who actually owned it?

British Railways Board after it closed. Don't know who owned it when it was
in service. However if network rail had asked to take it off their hands back
in 2007 I doubt there would have been too many objections.


There was for a while an idea that E* could use both terminals. Not
sure who dreamt that one up, possibly a southern edition of M Bell
(Tyneside) Ltd.

There was probably a reasonable argument to keep Waterloo in service for a
while after St P opened in case of teething problems either at the station
or on HS1 but I suppose the cost would have been prohibitive.o


It effectively was while HS1 was still in its testing phase but there
were proposals that it would be a good idea to continue a passenger
service into Waterloo for those who found the UndergrounD too exotic.


I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.


No advantage over conventional trains.

Would conventional trains from Waterloo have been able to use the Fawkham
Junction route to HS1? If not, their route to Ashford would surely be
slower?


Not sure it would have made a significant difference to the timings.

Surely it would save at least 15 mins?

Also the Javelins didn't exist at the time.

Yes, as I pointed out earlier, they were years away; not sure if they'd
even been ordered back then.


Class 395 ordered 2005; Waterloo international closed 2007, after the first
395 had been delivered for testing (first service trains 2009).


Anna Noyd-Dryver

In uk.railway Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Other than use of HS1 for part of the journey, and that there are no trains
from Waterloo to Ashford...

Only every half an hour, taking 1h17:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sear...8/14/0600-2000

What would a hypothetical Waterloo-Ashford Javelin via HS1 do it in?

Theo

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Roger Lynn wrote:
On 13/08/17 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.

Would a Javelin have any advantage on that route over whatever third rail
stock usually operates in that region? Presumably both would be restricted
to the same line speed, which I believe wasn't very high when Eurostars than
that way?

Roger


Part of HS1 was open and used by E*s to Waterloo; I was envisioning that
395s would use HS1 and then follow the route that E* used during that time.
OTTOMH I forget the junction names involved.

I think the first part of HS1 just went to Ashford, and the Eurostars went
via Tonbridge; it was then extended to Fawkham Junction, for the route via
Swanley to Waterloo. It was then completed to St Pancras, whereupon
Eurostar moved from Waterloo, and the Fawkham Junction link was no longer
used (it's now out of service).

wrote:
In article , (Anna
Noyd-Dryver) wrote:

Roger Lynn wrote:
On 13/08/17 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who
felt disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET
Javelin from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at
Ashford.
Would a Javelin have any advantage on that route over whatever third
rail stock usually operates in that region? Presumably both would be
restricted to the same line speed, which I believe wasn't very high when
Eurostars than that way?

Part of HS1 was open and used by E*s to Waterloo; I was envisioning that
395s would use HS1 and then follow the route that E* used during that
time. OTTOMH I forget the junction names involved.

Fawkham Junction was involved at one end or the other of the link.

It's at the western, third-rail end of the now-disused link. The eastern,
25 kV end connects to HS1 at the grade-separated Southfleet Junction.