On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 08:36:47 +0100, e27002 aurora
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:29:29 -0500,
wrote:

In article ,
(e27002 aurora) wrote:

On 10 Aug 2017 11:10:54 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

In uk.railway Basil Jet wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, except for the pretty
roof. But imagine that the east half of Victoria was tarted up, and
they decided to build a flyover so the Brighton lines could use it.
Then twenty years later the west half is tarted up to be nicer than the
east half, so they demolish the flyover. Then twenty years later they
tart up the east side again and rebuild the flyover. Even Michael Bell
wouldn't dream of advocating such athing.

Losing the flyover would enable reinstatement of an 8th track through
Queenstown Road (where it goes from 8 down to 7 to accommodate it, then 8
once the flyover has merged). I don't know enough about the (complex)
track layout and platforming to know if that would give any useful
increase in capacity.

Historically, IIRC, there were four tracks between Waterloo and
Barnes. I do not know how much the reduction around the Nine Elms
flyover reduced needed capacity.

Historically the constraint is at Queenstown Road Battersea (previously
Queens Road Battersea). It only ever had 3 platforms (the side platform has
long been out of use) and 3 passenger tracks. A fourth track, between the
two up tracks, served the late lamented Nine Elms Goods Station. There was
an attempt to work up a scheme to have one up and two down tracks there (to
ease ECS moves from Waterloo to Clapham Yard) but the cost of rebuilding the
station was found to be prohibitive.

So, the absence of a fourth track for the Windsor lines approach to
Waterloo is not really an issue. That is good.

After TfL's Northern Line reaches Battersea, will Queenstown Road
still be needed?

You think everybody needs London Underground ?

It is a pity the tube could not have reach Battersea Park.

---
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Theo wrote:
In uk.railway Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Other than use of HS1 for part of the journey, and that there are no trains
from Waterloo to Ashford...

Only every half an hour, taking 1h17:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sear...8/14/0600-2000

What would a hypothetical Waterloo-Ashford Javelin via HS1 do it in?



Well I must admit I was so focussed on Waterloo main station I'd forgotten
all about Waterloo East!! D'oh :/


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!


At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 2017\08\14 09:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!


At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?

Obvious to the guy sat at the pointy end! But in general, the front of
something is the side that's facing me, and the back is the side that's
facing away from me. It's a bit different with cars because they are
asymmetrical: the business end is always the front even if it's facing
away from you. The front of a train coming into the terminus is the back
leaving, so while it's stationary it doesn't have a front or back.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\14 09:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!


At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?

Obvious to the guy sat at the pointy end! But in general, the front of
something is the side that's facing me, and the back is the side that's
facing away from me. It's a bit different with cars because they are
asymmetrical: the business end is always the front even if it's facing
away from you. The front of a train coming into the terminus is the back
leaving, so while it's stationary it doesn't have a front or back.


There's also the issue that I think Roland raised: if you're walking from
the back of the train, how do you know when you've got to the front eight
cars unless there's a sign (on the platform or train door display) to tell
you? You might remember how many cars you've walked past, but how do you
know how many lie ahead in a long platform.

Regarding the front or back, I'm always amazed at how many people (usually
female) board a train at the terminus and then ask which way it'll be
going.

In message , at 08:43:18 on Mon, 14 Aug
2017, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!

At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?

Mot normals will see the driver's cab near the buffers and conclude
that's the "front" of the train.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 10:00:43 on Mon, 14 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Regarding the front or back, I'm always amazed at how many people (usually
female) board a train at the terminus and then ask which way it'll be
going.

While I might take issue with you over the gender bias, a lot of people
(especially the press) think that a driver's cab with 50 seats behind it
is a "locomotive".

They don't even consider the possibility that other coaches could be
'powered'.

--
Roland Perry

On 14/08/17 11:00, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\14 09:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\08\10 21:55, Recliner wrote:

Note the 10:22 Addlestone train on the board is shown as the "Front 8
coaches of the train".

I wish they'd say "Near" and "Far": I never know what "Front" means!

At certain locations I can understand your confusion - though 'near' and
'far' don't help either if the entrance to the platform is in the middle,
or if it's a multi-platform through station whether or not your train is
already present when you arrive on the platform (especially if it's an
unfamiliar location and you don't know which direction the train will
depart).

However at a terminus station where you walk past stop blocks to get to the
platform I'd have thought that 'front' and 'rear' were fairly obvious
descriptors?

Obvious to the guy sat at the pointy end! But in general, the front of
something is the side that's facing me, and the back is the side that's
facing away from me. It's a bit different with cars because they are
asymmetrical: the business end is always the front even if it's facing
away from you. The front of a train coming into the terminus is the back
leaving, so while it's stationary it doesn't have a front or back.

There's also the issue that I think Roland raised: if you're walking from
the back of the train, how do you know when you've got to the front eight
cars unless there's a sign (on the platform or train door display) to tell
you? You might remember how many cars you've walked past, but how do you
know how many lie ahead in a long platform.

Regarding the front or back, I'm always amazed at how many people (usually
female) board a train at the terminus and then ask which way it'll be
going.

Returning to (most of) the subject line, in my commuting days the
announcements at Waterloo (Main) were quite clear: "The front 8 coaches,
furthest from the ticket barrier" formed the Basingstoke stopper. At
Woking, the rear 4 were detached very smartly to form the Alton service.

I agree that it's more of a problem where there are no buffer stops.
Platforms 1a and 1b are a good attempt but the boundary between them
will shift between trains. I've also seen coloured zones, but I think
only to distinguish intercity[1] carriages with the same destination but
different accommodation.

Many (CHX-)Waterloo East-Ashford services are for "Ramsgate & Ramsgate".
They split at Ashford into a main train for Ramsgate via Canterbury and
a portion for Ramsgate via Dover. That must cause confusion.

[1] generic term, but including the late InterCity

On 14/08/2017 12:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 10:00:43 on Mon, 14 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Regarding the front or back, I'm always amazed at how many people
(usually
female) board a train at the terminus and then ask which way it'll be
going.

While I might take issue with you over the gender bias, a lot of people
(especially the press) think that a driver's cab with 50 seats behind it
is a "locomotive".


In Switzerland it could be.

They don't even consider the possibility that other coaches could be
'powered'.



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 13/08/17 20:07, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:18, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
I thought at the time that a solution to the SWT-area passengers who felt
disadvantaged by E*'s move to St Pancras, would have been 1tph SET Javelin
from Ashford-or-beyond to Waterloo, with connecting E*s at Ashford.

No advantage over conventional trains.

Would conventional trains from Waterloo have been able to use the Fawkham
Junction route to HS1? If not, their route to Ashford would surely be
slower?

I'd forgotten about the possibility of Javelins running along to HS1 to get
to Ashford. Shame it couldn't get from Waterloo into Ebbsfleet. That would
make the connection faster. A connection with the North Kent Line would have
helped too.

Roger