With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

--
jhk

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

Otherwise the sort of problem you mention arises. When I last looked, my
Oyster card didn't display when I started the first journey, nor a
stopwatch readout. I don't wear a watch. SK can suck it up!
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

--
jhk

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.

On 2017-09-13 11:22:44 +0000, Recliner said:

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.

Correct.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:22:44 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.

If that is what TfL means, why do they say "make a second journey
within one hour" instead of "start a second journey within one hour"?

While the Oyster (and contactless) system does not know how long you
stay on a bus, it does record the time of your touches, so it is
definitely possible for a ticket inspector to see how long you have
been on a bus when he checks your card.

--
jhk

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:00:56 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:22:44 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.

If that is what TfL means, why do they say "make a second journey
within one hour" instead of "start a second journey within one hour"?

While the Oyster (and contactless) system does not know how long you
stay on a bus, it does record the time of your touches, so it is
definitely possible for a ticket inspector to see how long you have
been on a bus when he checks your card.

Yes, and whether it's within 60 minutes or not is irrelevant: s/he
will be able to see that you touched in on the second bus, which is
all that matters. It doesn't matter to the inspector whether or not
that second touch-in will be charged or not. All that matters is that
you correctly touched in, and are therefore travelling legitimately.

In practice, most of the passengers on a typical bus won't actually be
paying for their journey, but that's OK and legitimate.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:22:44 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.

That's the approach of Translink in Metro Vancouver, where buses are a
flat one-zone fare with 100-minute transferability.

Using SkyTrain or SeaBus invokes multi-zone fares, but you'd be
hard-pressed to figure out a complete bus-only routing across multiple
zones before the 100-minute window expired anyway and an additional
one-zone fare would be charged on boarding an additional bus service.

And that's without taking into account the huge waste of time by
trundling by bus alone.

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.

TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:54:33 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.

TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.

Is this documented somewhere?

--
jhk