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Old September 13th 17, 11:52 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

--
jhk

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Old September 13th 17, 12:03 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?


Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?

Otherwise the sort of problem you mention arises. When I last looked, my
Oyster card didn't display when I started the first journey, nor a
stopwatch readout. I don't wear a watch. SK can suck it up!
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 13th 17, 12:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?


Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?


I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram

--
jhk
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Old September 13th 17, 12:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khans Hopper fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?


Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?


I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram


No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.
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Old September 13th 17, 12:54 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.

Neil
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Old September 13th 17, 12:54 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On 2017-09-13 11:22:44 +0000, Recliner said:

No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.


Correct.

Neil
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Old September 13th 17, 07:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:22:44 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:16:14 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:52:52 on
Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:
With Sadiq Khan’s ‘Hopper’ fare in effect, what should you do if the
second journey takes you over the one hour limit? Will you have to go
forward and touch your card again?

Isn't it *starting* the first leg within an hour?


I assume you meant starting the *second* leg within an hour.

No. The fares page [1] says:

" Make a journey using pay as you go (contactless or Oyster) on a bus
or tram, and you can now make a second bus or tram journey for free
within one hour of touching in on the first bus or tram. "

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


[1] https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payment...s/bus-and-tram


No, I think Roland is right: the second journey just has to start
within an hour of the first. The Oyster system has no idea how long
you stay on the second bus, and a ticket inspector will simply check
that you touched in correctly.


If that is what TfL means, why do they say "make a second journey
within one hour" instead of "start a second journey within one hour"?

While the Oyster (and contactless) system does not know how long you
stay on a bus, it does record the time of your touches, so it is
definitely possible for a ticket inspector to see how long you have
been on a bus when he checks your card.

--
jhk
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Old September 13th 17, 07:02 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:54:33 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.


Is this documented somewhere?

--
jhk
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Old September 13th 17, 07:35 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote on 13 Sep 2017 at 19:02 ...
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:54:33 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.


TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.


Is this documented somewhere?


It's not in the TfL Conditions of Carriage (12 Sep 2016). Section 6.8.6 says "If you make a journey using pay as you go on a bus or tram, you can make a second bus or tram journey for free within one hour of first touching in." As has been noted already, that is ambiguous.

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Old September 13th 17, 09:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Hopper fare and two journeys lasting more than an hour

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:35:36 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote on 13 Sep 2017 at 19:02 ...
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:54:33 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

On 2017-09-13 11:16:14 +0000, Jarle Hammen Knudsen said:

To me, making a bus journey means getting on the bus, riding the bus
and getting off again.

TfL does not share your interpretation.

If you touch in on the second bus within one hour of touching in on the
first bus, you are not charged and the journey can be completed in
whatever amount of time it takes.


Is this documented somewhere?


It's not in the TfL Conditions of Carriage (12 Sep 2016). Section 6.8.6 says "If you make a journey using pay as you go on a bus or tram, you can make a second bus or tram journey for free within one hour of first touching in." As has been noted already, that is ambiguous.


I don't find it ambiguous at all. To me, it's perfectly clear that it
means your second touch-in will be free if it's within 60 minutes of
the first.


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