Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 14:05:01 on Tue, 19 Sep 2017, Recliner
remarked:

I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a 3-4
minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops and
restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good case not
to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on the tube map)
and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent
Garden was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

And flower market.

Not to mention the LT Museum _ wouldn't it be embarrassing to close the
nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd,
Brompton Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

1934. The stations were closed because they were lightly trafficked. Also,
Down St was closed because it was in effect merged with Dover St to make
Green Park.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 14:05:01 on Tue, 19 Sep 2017, Recliner
remarked:

I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a 3-4
minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops and
restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good case not
to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on the tube map)
and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent Garden
was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum — wouldn't it be embarrassing to close the
nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

In message , at 19:49:53 on Tue, 19
Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a 3-4
minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops and
restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good case not
to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on the tube map)
and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent Garden
was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum — wouldn't it be embarrassing to close the
nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what others
were shuttered up in the 90's?
--
Roland Perry

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:49:53 on Tue, 19
Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a 3-4
minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops and
restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good case not
to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on the tube map)
and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent Garden
was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum — wouldn't it be embarrassing to close the
nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what others
were shuttered up in the 90's?

The Ongar branch closed on the same day as Aldwych. They could well have
closed Covent Garden on the same day, had there been a desire to do so.

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

wrote:
Its got to the point where its just painful to use in the mornings and
unsurprisingly the vast majority of people bail out at Finsbury and get on
the victoria line putting added strain on that.

Why is it so slow and so unreliable with frequent train gaps of 5 or 6 minutes
the rush hour?

Trains?
Drivers?
Signalling?
Dwell times?
Stations too close together in the centre with too much stopping?
All of the above?

Here's an interesting article about how the Victoria line, with new
automatic trains and signalling, achieves its very high frequency:
https://www.londonreconnections.com/2017/ninety-second-railway-making-victoria-frequent-metro-world/

Maybe, when the Piccadilly line also has state of the art trains and
signalling, it will do the same. But it will still have a route with
curvier tunnels and more stops than the much newer Victoria line, opened
more than 60 years later.

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:49:53 on Tue,
19 Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a
3-4 minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops
and restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good
case not to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on
the tube map) and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent
Garden was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum _ wouldn't it be embarrassing to close
the nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what
others were shuttered up in the 90's?

The Ongar branch closed on the same day as Aldwych. They could well have
closed Covent Garden on the same day, had there been a desire to do so.

And if the government was willing after a formal closure application to
allow it to do so. Covent Garden was far busier than Aldwych/Ongar by 1994.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:49:53 on Tue,
19 Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a
3-4 minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops
and restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good
case not to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on
the tube map) and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent
Garden was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum _ wouldn't it be embarrassing to close
the nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what
others were shuttered up in the 90's?

The Ongar branch closed on the same day as Aldwych. They could well have
closed Covent Garden on the same day, had there been a desire to do so.

And if the government was willing after a formal closure application to
allow it to do so. Covent Garden was far busier than Aldwych/Ongar by 1994.

Exactly. It may be close to Leicester Square station underground, but
Covent Garden station is nevertheless a busy station in its own right. And
the surface route between them isn't direct or obvious.

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:45:22 GMT, Recliner
wrote:

Exactly. It may be close to Leicester Square station underground, but
Covent Garden station is nevertheless a busy station in its own right. And
the surface route between them isn't direct or obvious.

It looks pretty straight on Google maps along Cranbourn St and Long
Acre, but I don't think I have walked that way when I've been in
London.

--
jhk

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

In message , at 21:08:35 on Tue, 19
Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a 3-4
minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops and
restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good case not
to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on the tube map)
and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent Garden
was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum — wouldn't it be embarrassing to close the
nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what others
were shuttered up in the 90's?

The Ongar branch closed on the same day as Aldwych. They could well have
closed Covent Garden on the same day, had there been a desire to do so.

The Ongar branch is the same kind of completely different closure as the
'Aldwych Branch'. There's no synergy whatsoever with closing just one
intermediate station on a line that's still operating fully.
--
Roland Perry

Why is the piccadilly line so slow?
 

In message , at 00:45:22 on Wed, 20
Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:49:53 on Tue,
19 Sep 2017, Recliner remarked:
I wonder why covent garden was spared? Its a small cramped station
that can't really cope with evening crowds and its literally a
3-4 minute walk to leicester square. Its a bit of an anomoly IMO.


IMO the explanation is lots of tourists, who support lots of shops
and restaurants, who pay lots of business rates, add up to a good
case not to make it harder for tourists to find Covent Garden (on
the tube map) and get there.

I suspect the opera house is more likely to be the reason. Covent
Garden was still a fruit market when the other Picc stations closed.

Not to mention the LT Museum _ wouldn't it be embarrassing to close
the nearest station to it?

The museum opened in 1980, when were the closures of York Rd, Brompton
Rd etc?

Almost fifty years earlier I think.

I was suggesting that it survived the 1990s closures partly for that
reason. I dare say that there were suggestions to close it rather than
replacing the lifts.

Apart from Aldwych that closed for very different reasons, what
others were shuttered up in the 90's?

The Ongar branch closed on the same day as Aldwych. They could well have
closed Covent Garden on the same day, had there been a desire to do so.

And if the government was willing after a formal closure application to
allow it to do so. Covent Garden was far busier than Aldwych/Ongar by 1994.

Exactly. It may be close to Leicester Square station underground, but
Covent Garden station is nevertheless a busy station in its own right.

The suggestion was that it might have closed because it was *too* busy.
In fact I think it does get turned into an arrivals-only station
sometimes.

And the surface route between them isn't direct or obvious.

Nonsense! Not only is it a straight and direct route, there's signage
right outside the station entrance: https://goo.gl/maps/cpuGjitWyNt
--
Roland Perry