Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:50:35 on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

Let's hope the successors treat their drivers better, and by proxy their
passengers (nailing down stuff like CRBs, insurance, personal safety)
and greater respect for other road users.

And when I say successor*s* that's deliberate. Uber is currently a
whisker away from playing the "too big to be allowed to fail" card.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:50:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:49:01 on Thu, 28
Sep 2017, Robin9 remarked:

[excessive snippage]

Interesting, but none of that changes the simple reality which is
that if Uber shut down in London, their drivers will not then give
up being minicab drivers and seek new vocations. They will
continue as minicab drivers as best they can and their cars will
still be on London's roads. .

Why didn't they do that *before* Uber arrived?

You are saying that the Uber app wasn't facilitating extra cabs after
all.

It almost certainly increased the number of minicabs. But if Uber really
does get shut down in a year or so, lots of other similar apps will be
waiting to take its place. In effect, Uber established and validated a new
market in London, and even if it is forced out, that market won't vanish
with it.

Lyft will be starting up in london soon apparently. At then least all the
whining millennials will STFU since the fragile little darlings will be able to
go back to being chauffeured door to door once more just like mummy used to do
for them, instead of slumming it on the tube or night bus with adults.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 07:40:16PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

?15/hr is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap
it up.

Fifteen quid an hour, assuming an 8 hour day and 5 day working week,
puts you well above the national average income. OK, so Uber's
independent contractors then have expenses to pay from that, but even so
to call it "modern slavery" is pretty silly.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

If you can't imagine how I do something, it's
because I have a better imagination than you

In message , at 15:13:57
on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, David Cantrell remarked:

?15/hr is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap
it up.

Fifteen quid an hour, assuming an 8 hour day and 5 day working week,
puts you well above the national average income.

I bet that national average isn't weighted for full time/part time/gig
workers.

OK, so Uber's
independent contractors then have expenses to pay from that, but even so
to call it "modern slavery" is pretty silly.

Given they are on zero-hours "contracts", work unsocial hours, have no
pensions, holiday or sick pay (the case for those is in the courts right
now) and reduced rights to benefits because of being self-employed.

And the elephant in the room is that it's the gross pay. Knock off 25%
for Uber's commissions, then most estimates for the cost of car rental,
petrol and valeting come in at about £300/week, so for a 60hr week you'd
see something like:

60 x 15 gross = 900
less 25% = 675
less £300 = 375

so that's more like £6.25/hr now, and under minimum wage, plus all the
risks of running your own business.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:13:57
on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, David Cantrell remarked:

?15/hr is verging on modern slavery, but the well-heeled punters lap
it up.

Fifteen quid an hour, assuming an 8 hour day and 5 day working week,
puts you well above the national average income.

I bet that national average isn't weighted for full time/part time/gig
workers.

OK, so Uber's
independent contractors then have expenses to pay from that, but even so
to call it "modern slavery" is pretty silly.

Given they are on zero-hours "contracts", work unsocial hours, have no
pensions, holiday or sick pay (the case for those is in the courts right
now) and reduced rights to benefits because of being self-employed.

And the elephant in the room is that it's the gross pay. Knock off 25%
for Uber's commissions, then most estimates for the cost of car rental,
petrol and valeting come in at about £300/week, so for a 60hr week you'd
see something like:

60 x 15 gross = 900
less 25% = 675
less £300 = 375

so that's more like £6.25/hr now, and under minimum wage, plus all the
risks of running your own business.

The FT has an analysis of how much of their time a UberEXEC driver is
actually earning:
https://www.ft.com/content/241d35e8-a463-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:22:37 on Fri, 29 Sep 2017, Recliner
remarked:
And the elephant in the room is that it's the gross pay. Knock off 25%
for Uber's commissions, then most estimates for the cost of car rental,
petrol and valeting come in at about £300/week, so for a 60hr week you'd
see something like:

60 x 15 gross = 900
less 25% = 675
less £300 = 375

so that's more like £6.25/hr now, and under minimum wage, plus all the
risks of running your own business.

The FT has an analysis of how much of their time a UberEXEC driver is
actually earning:
https://www.ft.com/content/241d35e8-a463-11e7-b797-b61809486fe2?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

The "usually £20" is widely regarded as either false memory, like it was
always long hot summers when we were on summer holidays from school; or
it's a very experienced driver knowing where to go (but this time the
surge-chasing failed).

And no doubt, like the £8, is also a gross figure.

Interesting his business has dived so suddenly. Could be a co-incidence,
or maybe on account of the publicity, people have been thinking about
whether the Uber business model is one they want to support.

ps. I wonder why he took such a circuitous route with the fare he picked
up in docklands?
--
Roland Perry

I see Uber have just lost their appeal. They say they will take it
further of course, but I wonder what their chances are.