future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On 31/08/2018 17:00, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:10, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Robin9 wrote:

There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the
extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most
of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still
generate considerable business.

Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too:
for
many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of
getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences.

yep me too

Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change
onto the Picc.

Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court?

Or even Hammersmith.

Baron's Court is slightly better.

My only reason is that a couple of times I have overtaken the District
Line train between there and Hammersmith and caught an earlier train to
Richmond than I otherwise would. For some reason the tube trains seem
to take a minute or so less between the two.


We were talking about changing *from* the District to the westbound
Piccadilly, so that's another reason to change at Barons Court.


So we are…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be
history.
Maybe even a matter of months.

I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with
fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board
fares. There just won't be enough takers.

There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL.
Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5.

I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually.

Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many
people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see.

The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly

Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).



Surely that depends where they’re staying - any tourists with a hotel in
Hammersmith, Kensington or Knightsbridge will surely still be better off on
the Piccadilly?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:39:34 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be
history.
Maybe even a matter of months.

I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with
fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board
fares. There just won't be enough takers.

There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL.
Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5.

I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually.

Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many
people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see.

The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly

Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).


How many Heathrow workers use HCon and the Picc? I think you'll find
there's enough of them that neither route will become a "ghost line".
Not only that but long before the Heathrow extension of the Picc the
loadings on the Hounslow branch with people traveling to the various
destinations (not just central London) didn't qualify as a ghost line.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

Graham Harrison wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:39:34 +0000 (UTC), Neil Robertson wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be
history.
Maybe even a matter of months.

I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with
fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board
fares. There just won't be enough takers.

There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL.
Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5.

I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually.

Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many
people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see.

The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly

Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).


How many Heathrow workers use HCon and the Picc? I think you'll find
there's enough of them that neither route will become a "ghost line".
Not only that but long before the Heathrow extension of the Picc the
loadings on the Hounslow branch with people traveling to the various
destinations (not just central London) didn't qualify as a ghost line.

Don't confuse Neil with facts… he has an unshakeable commitment to
ignorance and prejudice.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:10:37 -0000 (UTC)
Sad old Billy No Mates wrote:
Neil Robertson wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:27:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
You'll be able to share the passageway diagrams you've obviously getting
this from then won't you.

You appear not to have actually seen Farringdon station. But that doesn't
stop you sounding off ignorantly, as usual.

So you've had exclusive access to the crossrail works have you? If not then
you're just talking out of your backside. As usual.

I work near blackfriars and can see the lines into the station. I can assure

you the tube is more frequent than thameslink whatever the timetable may say.


And is the 2020 timetable projected through your window?

Oh, so you know the 2020 timetable as well do you? You really are a grand
seer! Please oh great one, do share your knowledge with us mortals!

Not so long ago, you flatly refused to believe that the track you're
looking at was the Thameslink msin line. Now you claim to know the future
timetable. Ignorance, piled upon ignorance.

You're the one that gave times based on some timetable you know nothing
about, I'm simply reporting the service as it is today Billy.

Unlike you I wouldn't take 10 minutes to walk from one platform to another.
Perhaps upgrade your walking stick.

As you know nothing about the station layout, or timetable, we can put the
usual zero credence on your claim.

Neither do you you sad old *******, but it wouldn't take me 10 mins to walk
from the tube at KX to St P thameslink so I very much doubt it'll take more
time to go from xrail to the tube at farringdon. 10 mins is a half mile walk
for a healthy man, though obviously that rules you out.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds,
yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or
Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train.

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's
a train every 2 or 3 minutes.

The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using
LU will make the change longer,

Why?

The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound
Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at
different heights).

--
Clive D.W. Feather

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds,
yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or
Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train.

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's
a train every 2 or 3 minutes.

The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using
LU will make the change longer,

Why?

The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound
Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at
different heights).


Yes, but only at the northern end. The Crossrail connection to TL will be
at the southern end. To get to the west-bound Circle line platform will
require joining the southbound TL platform, walking half its length, then
taking the short staircase to the west-bound Circle line. At best, it's a
longer walk, but it's even worse if carrying luggage.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

In message , at 07:58:52 on Wed, 12 Sep
2018, Clive D.W. Feather remarked:
Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds,
yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or
Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train.

Agreed for all but Cambridge, where it's perhaps useful to think of the
non-stop Cambridge services (the old Cruisers) as "LNER in waiting", and
if we are shaving minutes off here and there they will be preferable to
the semi-fast Thameslink trains which also take an age between arriving
at SPILL and departing Finsbury Park.

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle
line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes.

The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using
LU will make the change longer,

Why?

The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound
Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at
different heights).

There's not much in it, but the Crossrail station is beneath the new
Western[1] Ticket Hall, which also houses the southern extension of the
Thameslink platforms, and thus it's possible the walk to the tube
platforms will be longer. And possibly more awkward if we require
stepless.

[1] That's western in Crossrail parlance, it's obviously to the south of
the original tube/Thameslink ticket hall.
--
Roland Perry

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:58:52 on Wed, 12 Sep
2018, Clive D.W. Feather remarked:
Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds,
yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or
Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train.

Agreed for all but Cambridge, where it's perhaps useful to think of the
non-stop Cambridge services (the old Cruisers) as "LNER in waiting", and
if we are shaving minutes off here and there they will be preferable to
the semi-fast Thameslink trains which also take an age between arriving
at SPILL and departing Finsbury Park.

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle
line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes.

The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using
LU will make the change longer,

Why?

The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound
Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at
different heights).

There's not much in it, but the Crossrail station is beneath the new
Western[1] Ticket Hall, which also houses the southern extension of the
Thameslink platforms, and thus it's possible the walk to the tube
platforms will be longer.

Yes, it definitely will be, requiring a walk half the length of the long
southbound TL platform.


And possibly more awkward if we require stepless.

Indeed so.

I'm not clear if there might be a better interchange with the Circle line
at Barbican, via the eastern Crossrail exit.


[1] That's western in Crossrail parlance, it's obviously to the south of
the original tube/Thameslink ticket hall.


Yes, it might be clearer if it was called the Farringdon exit, with the
eastern exit called the Barbican exit.