"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
I'm getting feelings of deja vu - isn't this a rehash of North-South
CrossRail from the 1989 Central London Rail Study?


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

I didn't know about that study, but I feel sure that the good ideas have
been thought of before. What I was looking for was a single Crossrail that
would serve the most important purposes of Crossrails One and Two. But in
view of the high cost of the longer line, I would happily settle for almost
any Crossrail, provided it's affordable. The LRM proposal is cheaper than
the CLRL one, but it's more limited in scope.

David.

Nitro wrote:
(Aidan Stanger) wrote...
Nitro -

The version of Crossrail I favour is as follows:

take over the slow lines on the WCML to
Milton Keynes (and possibly Northampton, but as Northampton's so much
further away it might be better to terminate Crossrail services at
Wolverton and give Northampton to Virgin).

Would probably be running with 12 cars, but this may not be enough.

Whether it's enough depends on the service frequency.

Remember that capacity is limited on the Slow Lines,

Then they should unlimit it!

and that you may end up attracting Virgin passengers at Milton Keynes.

I consider that to be unlikely, as they're likely to consider the extra
speed of Virgin worth the hassle of a short tube ride. However it would
certainly attract some passengers off Virgin Trains at Watford Junction.
This would be a very good thing, as it means that passengers for Euston
would then be able to board Virgin Trains at Watford Junction.

London Underground would take over the Euston to Watford Junction
service using Tube stock (so the platform height could be optimized).
Initially this would run into the main Euston station,

I read somewhere that lack of platform space at Euston prevented
frequency from being increased on the DC Line.

And having Crossrail take over all the services on ths Slow Line would
solve the problem.

Line 2:

Tunnel from Clapham Junction (somewhere between Latchmere Road and
Cranleigh Avenue) to Dalston Junction (via Battersea West, Chelsea,
Victoria, Piccadilly Circus, TCR, Kings Cross St.Pancras, Angel, and
Essex Rd. It would then take over the NLL and run to Woolwich Arsenal
via a new tunnel from Silvertown (N Woolwich would close).

Did you know that the SRA are looking at running NLL trains on
Crossrail from Custom House to Abbey Wood?

No, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As with your proposal, the trains don't have to terminate at
Clapham*Junction. They could take over some of the services that
currently run to Waterloo.

Problem with this is that passengers for Canary Wharf would have to
change twice - once onto already packed trains to Waterloo at Clapham
Junction, and then onto the Jubilee Line. Your Line 2 has no
convenient interchange with a line going to the Wharf.

There's Stratford, but I see your point - that would be slower.

(The numbering of the following lines may not indicate the best order to
build them in)
Line 3:
Tunnel mostly below the Circle Line from Paddington to Liverpool St then
via Whitechapel to Poplar. Surface and run to Custom House.

Is there space for another surface line? - will you have to demolish
buildings, or build it above the road? (but then where will the
supports go?) I don't know.

Above the road, with supports in the central revervation in some places
and to the side. A few houses just W of Poplar DLR depot may have to be
demolished, as would part of the depot itself. I think the elevated
section could be done without resorting to knocking down buildings,
though I'm not entirely certain.


Line 4:
Tunnel from Waterloo (or more likely, somewhere beyond Vauxhall) to
Bethnal Green via Blackfriars, St.Pauls and Liverpool Street. This would
almost certainly require the demolishion of a few buildings, including
the new one at 1 London Wall.

The surface Bethnal Green, I assume.

Correct. Another thing I'd do is change the name of Bethnal Green
station on the Central Line to Bethnal Green Central. I'd do similar at
Shepherds Bush.

Line 5: Tunnel from Moorgate (or Old Street) to South London via
London*Bridge.

And an underground Cannon Street, if not too expensive.

....and if no better location could be found.

The rest of the service would have to terminate in an as
yet undecided location (possibly Clapham Junction - build some
reversing sidings there?).

Why?

So people can get on trains at somewhere like Vauxhall.

Why wouldn't they be able to do that if the trains went further?

The trains may be full.

Then make them longer!

· Avoids the problem of building a mainline station at
Piccadilly Circus

Just what exactly is the problem there?

Not enough space underground for a mainline station

I've heard that claim before, but am not convinced. Where exactly is
there not enough space?

I don't know, but LUL omitted it from the Express Metro versions of
the Chelsea-Hackney Line because of this reason.

So they claim, but I'm not convinced they were trying hard enough!

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

I really think we should start a gallery of crossrail
proposals, since everyone seems to have one.
We could have awards - Best Relief of Congestion,
Best Relief Of Central London Interchange,
Best Provision of Access to Regenerating Areas,
Most Entertainingly Unrealistic, etc.

There should be a category for "Most contrived way of serving author's local
station"

There's always my BlackTrack proposal...
http://www.geocities.com/pikkulapsi/ellideas.html

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Crossrail 3 would then takeover the Wimbledon slow lines and serve
Vauxhall, Battersea (new platforms),

What's wrong with the old ones? Or are you saying that there should be
new platforms on the Victoria to Brixton line?

The problem with Queenstown Road Battersea is that it's only on the
Windsor Lines. The proposal is basically a SW (Main) Slow Lines
takeover.

Is there room though? There are only two (used) Windsor Line platforms and
the faster trains don't call.

The faster trains not calling there reflects the level of patronage.
As you implied, there is of course a 3rd platform, albeit on the
Windsor Reversible Line (ie the relatively useless one). As for
putting platforms on the Main Slow Lines, there are two big problems -
the constraints imposed by the Atlantic Line viaduct overhead at the
Up end and the BML itself being elevated (Queenstown Rd viaduct) at
the Down end.

I really think we should start a gallery of crossrail
proposals, since everyone seems to have one.
We could have awards - Best Relief of Congestion,
Best Relief Of Central London Interchange,
Best Provision of Access to Regenerating Areas,
Most Entertainingly Unrealistic, etc.

There should be a category for "Most contrived way of serving author's local
station"

There's always my BlackTrack proposal...
http://www.geocities.com/pikkulapsi/ellideas.html

Fortunately my local station (20 minutes walk) has IC125s running
non-stop from it to London SP, so I can't really complain. It would be
cool if they could diverge over the Cricklewood Line, the Kew Spur and
the Windsor Fast Lines into Waterloo and save me a cross-London
transfer ;-)