Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 05:37:31 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:12:33 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 23:24:39 on
Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked:

I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to
the stalled train ahead.

Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station.

Not normally done on LU AFAIAA

I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes
taking place.

My old man worked on the Met, rising via yard manager at Neasden and
station master, to becoming an area manager.

He told the story or some bright young manager ordering an 8-car train
of A-stock to couple up behind another 8-car train that had failed.
Making it too long for a short section - the average block length is
about 300 metres so some are shorter, and a 16-car A-stock train would
be 256.

So it would occupy three blocks at a time.

I have no idea how it was sorted out.

It would not have been a rare version of assistance on the
Underground. Depending on where/what the fault was there would have
been the opportunity to rearrange into different combinations of
4-coach units but the main problem might not have amounted to more
than isolating the tripcock on the rear 8 set to conform to the
standard practice of only the end vehicles having an operational
tripcock (if you didn't disable the trips on the middle cabs of an 8
coach train you would get tripped all day).

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

On 27/03/2019 18:51, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:22:33 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 27/03/2019 09:14, David Walters wrote:

There are quite a few. On your journey 8 of the 12 stations travelled
through have toilets. There are fewer toilets on the deep bored sections.


Any chance the SuperSewer will improve this situation?

It could produce some spectacular backing up.

I was more suggesting (although half joking) that given the super sewer
will somewhat guarantee for the first time that the sewer was lower than
the drains in even deep level tubes it might make installing bogs easier.

But then again, toilets don't drive revenue so adding new ones is
presumably off the bottom of whatever today's priority list is.

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:12:33 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 23:24:39 on
Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked:

I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to
the stalled train ahead.

Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station.

Not normally done on LU AFAIAA

I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes
taking place.

My old man worked on the Met, rising via yard manager at Neasden and
station master, to becoming an area manager.

He told the story or some bright young manager ordering an 8-car train
of A-stock to couple up behind another 8-car train that had failed.
Making it too long for a short section - the average block length is
about 300 metres so some are shorter, and a 16-car A-stock train would
be 256.

So it would occupy three blocks at a time.

I have no idea how it was sorted out.


Why would that be a problem, other than at the terminus? Presumably they
were only going to run to the next station with passengers on and then
detrain, then run empty to a siding or depot.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline
features on the map).

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.

If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station
building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then
surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington,
Bristol Parkway, Swansea).


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline
features on the map).

There's three situations:

Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but
no doubt someone can find a counter-example)

Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore
quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone
can find a counter-example)

Situated and managed by "someone else".

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.

I can't see any in Z1 which aren't.

If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station
building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then
surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington,
Bristol Parkway, Swansea).

"Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail.
So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator
(in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station.
--
Roland Perry

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline
features on the map).

There's three situations:

Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but
no doubt someone can find a counter-example)

Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore
quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone
can find a counter-example)

Situated and managed by "someone else".

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.

I can't see any in Z1 which aren't.

I can't see why that matters. But if it does there's Baker Street. Plus
Shoreditch High Street on the Overground.

If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station
building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then
surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington,
Bristol Parkway, Swansea).

"Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail.
So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator
(in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

In message , at
15:06:02 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked:
On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not
necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline
features on the map).
There's three situations:
Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by
TfL, but
no doubt someone can find a counter-example)
Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably
therefore
quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone
can find a counter-example)
Situated and managed by "someone else".

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.
I can't see any in Z1 which aren't.

I can't see why that matters.

Because of the higher concentration of passengers.

But if it does there's Baker Street. Plus Shoreditch High Street on
the Overground.

Fair enough (and I forgot the latter was infamously Z1; disabled toilet
only, does it need a RADAR key? I'll forgive the thread drift from
Underground Stations to Overground).

--
Roland Perry

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

On 28/03/2019 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
15:06:02 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked:
On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on
Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons
Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was
absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere
near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not
necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the
gateline
features on the map).
Â*There's three situations:
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by
TfL, but
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* no doubt someone can find a counter-example)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably
therefore
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* can find a counter-example)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Situated and managed by "someone else".

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.
Â*I can't see any in Z1 which aren't.

I can't see why that matters.

Because of the higher concentration of passengers.

But if it does there's Baker Street.Â* Plus Shoreditch High Street on
the Overground.

Fair enough (and I forgot the latter was infamously Z1; disabled toilet
only, does it need a RADAR key? I'll forgive the thread drift from
Underground Stations to Overground).


That's immensely kind of you. It was indeed stupid of me to think that
someone who posted about the map that "That's not toilets at TfL
stations..." expected comments about TfL stations other than underground
stations.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station
building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then
surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington,
Bristol Parkway, Swansea).

"Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail.
So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator
(in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station.

From personal experience the toilets are Westminster (20p) and
Monument (free) are within the tube station building (although in the
outside wall at Westminster) albeit not apparently managed by TfL.

I believe the map is now incorrect in that the toilets in Charing
Cross station are now free to use.

--
Natalie Amery. There through all the heartache,
##### There through all the pain
#######__o You still sense a deeper peace,
#######'/ A strength you can't explain - Mark Dennis

Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked:

There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets,
either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court,
we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely
bursting by the time we got there.

More than you'd think:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf

That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near
TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline".

With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL.

Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily
even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline
features on the map).

There's three situations:

Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but
no doubt someone can find a counter-example)


Just at a glance, Barking, Upminster, Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Clapham
Junction (presumably all NR toilets); Earls Court (I wonder who manages
those).

Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore
quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone
can find a counter-example)

Situated and managed by "someone else".

Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger.

I can't see any in Z1 which aren't.


Baker Street.

Besides which I didn’t realise the discussion was limited to zone 1...


Anna Noyd-Dryver